Trigger Maru vs RFB for a SH4 newbie

Saturnalia · 03-19-08, 10:50 PM

Loved SH3 and the Grey Wolves mod, with SH4, not sure which one to use.
What are the differences between the two, any advantages one has over the other?

Wilcke · 03-19-08, 10:58 PM

Read their respective threads, READ ME's, FAQ's. Setup two installs of SH4 and try them both. Thats what I do!

Happy Hunting!

Ducimus · 03-19-08, 11:09 PM

I think its SWDW's turn to field this one, I think i answered last time, so im passing the buck.

sideways · 03-20-08, 02:08 AM

Well,

I tend to find TM more 'fun' and RFB more 'real' (surprisingly enough)

TM's realism factor also often makes things easier - RFB almost always makes them harder.

So, I'd probably recommend TM - a number of things about it made my recent transition to manual targeting a LOT easier. You might want to take a look in the notes/faq's for how to remove some of the extra realism stuff built into it (map contacts not showing direction beyond compass points etc) if you're still a total noob.

p.s. Ducimus - Love your work.

Rockin Robbins · 03-20-08, 05:26 AM

There are things you know about submarining, courtesy of GWX, that no amount of time in SH4 can teach you as well, especially evasion and dying. You're not going to freak if four Akizuki's peel off the formation and hold an indian war dance above you.

However, the American TDC is plenty weird from your point of view, and I'm assuming you want to sink targets, not just avoid depth charges.

That's why I recommend you play the game naked except for Pacific Environment for awhile. Those ship silhouettes, velocity vectors, different colors for friend and foe, who knows what else because I haven't seen them for so long, aren't there to cheat. They're there to help you learn, giving you too much information so that when you miss a shot you can understand what went wrong.

Once you understand the American targeting system, you can better judge TM vs RFB. I'm a TM guy because my previous experience with GWX lets me tolerate the better than reality Japanese ASW. In fact, I enjoy it. RFB has been built (correct me if I'm wrong, swdw or Luke) on "historical accuracy" for Japanese ASW. They basically took the numbers and concluded that the Japanese were marshmallows who couldn't sink a sub. Therefore they are pretty harmless. At least that was my experience with RFB in the Beery days.

I was pretty indignant at Ducimus when I met my first DD after loading up TM. I accused him of putting Superman on the crew, using his x-ray eyes to find me without even pinging. But I basically just switched into GWX mode and found that the beefed up ASW made SH4 better.

Tater has worked on both RFB and TM. He says that in the face of "historical" Japanese capabilities we become too bold, shooting it out on the surface with DDs, firing four torpedoes and sinking 4 escorts in John Wayne fashion, when in the real war they would behave much more timidly because they were trying to survive. In order for the player to behave realistically, the enemy must be more menacing than real life. Trigger Maru does that, supplying a more realistic player experience than "historical perfection" (whatever that is) would accomplish.

Oh, well. Count me a Trigger Maru fanboy and make up your own mind. You could always go the MultiSH4 way and have two installations, one for TM and one for RFB.

TDK1044 · 03-20-08, 07:48 AM

If you're looking for total reality, go with RFB. If you want a realistic feel with a little artistic license, go for TMO.

swdw · 03-20-08, 08:08 AM

To Saturnalia
As for which one to use. It's personal preference. It's like asking people which is better, coke or pepsi.

Ducimus tried to maintain a balance of, as he says, 75% realism and 25% playability. RFB is heading towards the "I can smell the diesel fumes" realism (another quote from Ducimus)

It's easy enough to try both. Load up TM and do a patrol in TM, Then do the same thing with RFB.

If you are running 1.5, TM is the only choice at the moment. We're working on the 1.5 release of RFB at this time.

Saturnalia · 03-21-08, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

There are things you know about submarining, courtesy of GWX, that no amount of time in SH4 can teach you as well, especially evasion and dying. You're not going to freak if four Akizuki's peel off the formation and hold an indian war dance above you.

However, the American TDC is plenty weird from your point of view, and I'm assuming you want to sink targets, not just avoid depth charges.

VERY, VERY YES. Spent a good hour figuring out some of the switches and I am not even into manual data acquisition.

03-19-08, 10:50 PM	#1
Saturnalia Mate Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 53 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Trigger Maru vs RFB for a SH4 newbie Loved SH3 and the Grey Wolves mod, with SH4, not sure which one to use. What are the differences between the two, any advantages one has over the other?

03-19-08, 10:58 PM	#2
Wilcke The Old Man Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,441 Downloads: 234 Uploads: 0	Read their respective threads, READ ME's, FAQ's. Setup two installs of SH4 and try them both. Thats what I do! Happy Hunting! __________________ Wilcke **For the best in Fleet Boats go to: Submarine Sim Central. http://forum.kickinbak.com/index.php Check out: A Brief Introduction to the Pacific Submarine War by Ducimus http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128185 Operation Monsun plus OMEGU, the #1 ATO Solution for SH4! Signature Art by Gunfighter**

03-20-08, 05:26 AM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	You're a pro but...... There are things you know about submarining, courtesy of GWX, that no amount of time in SH4 can teach you as well, especially evasion and dying. You're not going to freak if four Akizuki's peel off the formation and hold an indian war dance above you. However, the American TDC is plenty weird from your point of view, and I'm assuming you want to sink targets, not just avoid depth charges. That's why I recommend you play the game naked except for Pacific Environment for awhile. Those ship silhouettes, velocity vectors, different colors for friend and foe, who knows what else because I haven't seen them for so long, aren't there to cheat. They're there to help you learn, giving you too much information so that when you miss a shot you can understand what went wrong. Once you understand the American targeting system, you can better judge TM vs RFB. I'm a TM guy because my previous experience with GWX lets me tolerate the better than reality Japanese ASW. In fact, I enjoy it. RFB has been built (correct me if I'm wrong, swdw or Luke) on "historical accuracy" for Japanese ASW. They basically took the numbers and concluded that the Japanese were marshmallows who couldn't sink a sub. Therefore they are pretty harmless. At least that was my experience with RFB in the Beery days. I was pretty indignant at Ducimus when I met my first DD after loading up TM. I accused him of putting Superman on the crew, using his x-ray eyes to find me without even pinging. But I basically just switched into GWX mode and found that the beefed up ASW made SH4 better. Tater has worked on both RFB and TM. He says that in the face of "historical" Japanese capabilities we become too bold, shooting it out on the surface with DDs, firing four torpedoes and sinking 4 escorts in John Wayne fashion, when in the real war they would behave much more timidly because they were trying to survive. In order for the player to behave realistically, the enemy must be more menacing than real life. Trigger Maru does that, supplying a more realistic player experience than "historical perfection" (whatever that is) would accomplish. Oh, well. Count me a Trigger Maru fanboy and make up your own mind. You could always go the MultiSH4 way and have two installations, one for TM and one for RFB. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

03-20-08, 08:08 AM	#7
swdw Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 921 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	To Saturnalia As for which one to use. It's personal preference. It's like asking people which is better, coke or pepsi. Ducimus tried to maintain a balance of, as he says, 75% realism and 25% playability. RFB is heading towards the "I can smell the diesel fumes" realism (another quote from Ducimus) It's easy enough to try both. Load up TM and do a patrol in TM, Then do the same thing with RFB. If you are running 1.5, TM is the only choice at the moment. We're working on the 1.5 release of RFB at this time. __________________ "There are only two types of ships- submarines...... and targets" Unknown "you wouldn't catch me on a ship that deliberately sinks itself"- comment to me from a surface sailor. System: AMD 6300 3.5 GHz \| 32GB DDR3 \| SATA 300 320GB HD, SATA III 1TB HD, SATA III 1.TB HD \| ASUS Sonar DS sound card NVIDIA 1660 Super OC \| Windows 10

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03-19-08, 11:09 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I think its SWDW's turn to field this one, I think i answered last time, so im passing the buck.

03-20-08, 02:08 AM	#4
sideways Watch Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 27 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Well, I tend to find TM more 'fun' and RFB more 'real' (surprisingly enough) TM's realism factor also often makes things easier - RFB almost always makes them harder. So, I'd probably recommend TM - a number of things about it made my recent transition to manual targeting a LOT easier. You might want to take a look in the notes/faq's for how to remove some of the extra realism stuff built into it (map contacts not showing direction beyond compass points etc) if you're still a total noob. p.s. Ducimus - Love your work.

03-20-08, 07:48 AM	#6
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	If you're looking for total reality, go with RFB. If you want a realistic feel with a little artistic license, go for TMO.