GWX Team - convoy screen thoughts

[MarkShot]

Dear GWX Team,

As always, thanks for your wonderful mod.

I don't know how much control modders have over the convoy screen formation and the screen's behavior.

An now my feedback ...

It is my impression that the convoy defense is too heavily weighted to the flanks and rear.

I can consistently slip by the screen at 25M when that screen contains 6-9 escorts. Typically, there will be two escorts positioned forward. However, one of two will be considerably more forward than the other.

Generally, screens are not that hard to penetrated if you have an accurate course for the convoy and then can key in on the single most forward escort. You side step that escort with three key techniques:

(1) Silent running at 1-2kts.

(2) Time (you arrive way in advance ... thus, despite your low speed) the long lead distance gives you time to position.

(3) Depth. At 25M you have enough slack to drift upwards while making 1kts.

Once you clear that single escort, the convoy is open to you.

Okay, how could this approach be made harder:

(1) More escorts leading.

(2) More forward area in front of the covered by escort motion.

(3) Randomness in escort searching as opposed to predictable swings back and forth.

Now, I am not sure that anything can be tweaked, but for #1. However, I would think #1 might be promising. I would assume that the convoy's greatest vulnerability submerged is from the front. Your sub is constrained on close approach to only 1-2kts. There is limited opportunity to thrust in from the flanks; and none from the rear. Even if a flank attack is feasible, it requires much more skill than a forward attack. Why? The forward attack is highly passive based on letting the convoy come to you. The flank attack requires substantial repositioning of your U-boat both in a relative and absolute sense.

So, I would tend to think that the convoy would put up a strongest defense if 50% of the escorts were allocated to sweep ahead of the convoy. Of course, this configuration might not be historic, but I think it would increase the challenge of attacking GWX convoys.

The vulnerability I see to such approach is the pop-up attack. I have heard that despite moving very slowly and deep that the u-boat can blow ballast and rise rapidly to attack without alerting the escorts. I personally have not used this technique. A less uniform screen might make this style of attack easier.

Comments?

[MarkShot]

An example of threading the eye of the needle with 7 escorts in early 1943.

As far as I can tell, this procedure isn't really getting harder as the war progresses. What is getting harded is getting away after attacking.

PS: You may comment on my use of map contacts and red lines for warships. However, doing without these aids would only make is more tedious, but not impossible to do. Since mainly, you need to key off the lead escort at the point. Once you learn how to do that, you can thread the needle.

---

I have received numerous requests to share this mod for GWX Red Lines. Actual credit should go to Rubini as I adapted his work when I was playing GWX 1.03. This also works with other mods which alter contact lines. Here is a link to the mod. No, need to PM me with an email address:

Right click and do a SAVE AS to your hard drive; unzip; use JSGME to install.

http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/te...es/redline.zip

[GoldenRivet]

good technique is what it amounts to.

Try the exact same thing in May of 1943 and post the results

[MarkShot]

That was 01/30/43.

Everyone keeps saying tomorrow.

I just finished playing through that checkpoint as practice.

I also fairly easily escaped the DEs after the attack. The AI mainly allocated as single DE to attack me and another to stay close.

I think similar to SH2, DE allocation appears to be dependent on proximity to your supposed location. So, it seems that if you attack a convoy with 7 escorts, it doesn't mean that they will counter-attack you with 7 escorts.

[ToySoldier]

Hi out there!

Originally Posted by MarkShot

PS: You may comment on my use of map contacts and red lines for warships. However, doing without these aids would only make is more tedious, but not impossible to do. Since mainly, you need to key off the lead escort at the point. Once you learn how to do that, you can thread the needle.

Excuse my question .... but where did you get the red line from????

I like to have them to!!!!

In diesem Sinne
Gott mit uns
Frank B. aus K.

[MarkShot]

I made a mod of mods to do that.

PM me an email address and I will zip it and send it to you. Simple JSGME mod.

[Tessa]

I've run into a few convoys like that between 43-44 and don't really see the need to make it harder, or add more escorts. By lying in wait virtually like a ghost you achieve a perfect tactical position for an ambush that is going to dish out some major damage. Same as walking into a MG42 nest, sending more squads forward to get gunned down just leads to more body bags, you either get a sniper or start tossing grenades once the position is located. Escorts have to act smarter and can't carpetbomb areas with depth charges.

Even if the escorts find you, they're still at a major disadvantage with friendly fire and creating potential collisions within the convoy. After you empty your tubes you can break for one of the columns and hide under a large noise tanker or such. Even without silent speed you can reload potentially till you've run out (though that usually requires taking out 2-4 of the escorts) from hiding. Though destroyers are nimble ships, maneuvering through the columns to find you makes them slow down and concentrate on moving before they can really start looking for you. Perfect situation is if you can cripple a large target enough that it will eventually get left behind by the convoy. Just hide under him then slip away. Being able to attack a convoy like that is extremely fun, yet still requires a lot of skill to stay safe. It's one of the few major vulnerabilities convoys have, being at the right place at the right time is no coincidence

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by MarkShot

Dear GWX Team,

As always, thanks for your wonderful mod.

I don't know how much control modders have over the convoy screen formation and the screen's behavior.

Hi!

We have no control over the escort formations except in scripted single- and multi-player missions. We have been able to get the escorts to vary their paths and perform an active search every once in a while.

An now my feedback ...

It is my impression that the convoy defense is too heavily weighted to the flanks and rear.

I can consistently slip by the screen at 25M when that screen contains 6-9 escorts. Typically, there will be two escorts positioned forward. However, one of two will be considerably more forward than the other.

The AI puts the escorted ships into a box formation, and spreads the escorts around the convoy in a circular formation, with escorts equidistant along the perimeter of the circle. This is why there are generally only one or two escorts in the front of a convoy, but we are unable to change it since the formation-creation logic is hard-coded.

Generally, screens are not that hard to penetrated if you have an accurate course for the convoy and then can key in on the single most forward escort. You side step that escort with three key techniques:

(1) Silent running at 1-2kts.

(2) Time (you arrive way in advance ... thus, despite your low speed) the long lead distance gives you time to position.

(3) Depth. At 25M you have enough slack to drift upwards while making 1kts.

Once you clear that single escort, the convoy is open to you.

Okay, how could this approach be made harder:

(1) More escorts leading.

(2) More forward area in front of the covered by escort motion.

(3) Randomness in escort searching as opposed to predictable swings back and forth.

Now, I am not sure that anything can be tweaked, but for #1. However, I would think #1 might be promising. I would assume that the convoy's greatest vulnerability submerged is from the front. Your sub is constrained on close approach to only 1-2kts. There is limited opportunity to thrust in from the flanks; and none from the rear. Even if a flank attack is feasible, it requires much more skill than a forward attack. Why? The forward attack is highly passive based on letting the convoy come to you. The flank attack requires substantial repositioning of your U-boat both in a relative and absolute sense.

So, I would tend to think that the convoy would put up a strongest defense if 50% of the escorts were allocated to sweep ahead of the convoy. Of course, this configuration might not be historic, but I think it would increase the challenge of attacking GWX convoys.

The vulnerability I see to such approach is the pop-up attack. I have heard that despite moving very slowly and deep that the u-boat can blow ballast and rise rapidly to attack without alerting the escorts. I personally have not used this technique. A less uniform screen might make this style of attack easier.

Comments?

Convoy formations changed over the course of the war; eventually, you would find one or two flank escorts per side and a rear guard, with the rest of the escort in front of the convoy. Some of these remained in formation; others prowled about in front of the convoy and could be ordered to track down any U-boat detected by HFDF-capable ships in the convoy.

We have tried to use historical formations in the historically-based single- and multi-player missions, but the escort AI is not as smart as the humans which it attempts to emulate, so even historical formations are not as effective as they were in real life: escorts rarely "prowl" anywhere, and generally stay in formation. They will not execute a "Raspberry," "Half-Raspberry," or any other historical escort response to a U-boat attack other than to congregate in the U-boat's general area and search for it; however, they will use one escort to track you while the others maneuver to attack based on the reports of the escort that is tracking you.

The Silent Hunter III convoy setup and operations AI limits our ability to put historical operational approaches into practice. We could double or treble the number of convoy escorts, but Allied technical advances can make that a very tough proposition after about mid-1943, when the Allies start getting more advanced sonar.

Pablo