Blue on blue incident in Afghanistan

The Avon Lady · 08-24-07, 06:45 AM

U.S. bomb kills British soldiers in Afghanistan

micky1up · 08-24-07, 05:24 PM

amazing how its never a uk on uk incident it always involves a US force when will they ever learn

and its all about attitude not equipment the american forces have always been too gung ho

bigboywooly · 08-24-07, 05:49 PM

1991 - American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacks British armoured personnel carriers killing nine British soldiers (the same number as were killed by enemy fire in the whole war).
1992 - USS Saratoga during a no-notice exercise that included a simulated RIM-7 launch; confusion ensued, and a sailor launched into the bridge of the Turkish destroyer Muavenet killing 5.
1994 - In the Black Hawk Incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagles involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawks over northern Iraq, killing 29 military and civilian personnel.
2001 - American F/A-18 dropped 3 Mk-82 bombs on a friendly observation post killing six and wounding 11 at Al Udairi Range, Kuwait.
2002 - American F-16 pilot dropped a 500 lb (228 kg) bomb on Canadian soldiers performing a live-fire exercise, killing four and injuring another 8 in the Tarnak Farm incident.
2003

American aircraft attacked a friendly Kurdish & U.S. Special Forces convoy, killing 15. BBC translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed was killed and BBC reporter Tom Giles and World Affairs Editor John Simpson were injured. The incident was filmed. [11]
American Patriot missile shot down in error F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 50 mi from Karbala, Iraq, killing the pilot.
American Patriot missile shot down a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A ZG710 'D' of 13 Squadron killing the pilot and navigator, Flight Lieutenant David Rhys Williams and Flight Lieutenant Kevin Barry Main, both from 9 Squadron
British Royal Marine Christopher Maddison killed when his river patrol boat was hit by missiles after being wrongly identified as an enemy vessel approaching a Royal Engineers checkpoint on the Al-Faw Peninsula, Iraq.[6]
British Challenger 2 tank came under fire from another British tank in a nighttime firefight, blowing off the turret and killing two crew members, Corporal Stephen John Allbutt and Trooper David Jeffrey Clarke [12]
190th Fighter Squadron, Blues and Royals friendly fire incident - March 28, 2003 when a pair of American A-10s from the 190th Fighter Squadron attack four British armoured reconnaissance vehicles of the Blues and Royals, killing Lance-Corporal of Horse Matty Hull, during the invasion of Iraq.

2004 - Pat Tillman, famous American football player and friendly fire victim in Afghanistan.
2005

American soldier Mario Lozano is suspected of killing Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari and wounding Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena in Baghdad. Sgrena had been kidnapped and subsequently rescued by Calipari; however, it is claimed that the car they were escaping in failed to stop at an American checkpoint, and U.S. soldiers opened fire.
American troops opened fire on a Bulgarian convoy. Junior Sergeant Gardi Gardev was killed.

2006

During Operation Medusa, two U.S.A-10 Thunderbolt IIs strafed their own NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, killing Canadian Private Mark Anthony Graham, and seriously wounding five others when soldiers were trying to seize a Taliban stronghold along the Arghandab River. Graham was a former Canadian Olympic athlete who competed on the Canadian 4x400 Men's Relay Team at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics.
A U.S.machine gunner accidentally shot (from behind) and killed Canadian Pvt. Robert Costall and Vermont National Guard Sgt. John Thomas near Kandahar, in Afghanistan.

2007

American airstrike killed eight Kurdish Iraqi soldiers. [13]
U.S. forces kill seven Afghan police officers.[14]
One of a pair USAF F-15s called in to support British ground forces in Afganistan dropped a bomb on those forces, killing three soldiers of the 1st Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment, and injuring two others.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire

JALU3 · 08-24-07, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

1991 - American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacks British armoured personnel carriers killing nine British soldiers (the same number as were killed by enemy fire in the whole war).
1992 - USS Saratoga during a no-notice exercise that included a simulated RIM-7 launch; confusion ensued, and a sailor launched into the bridge of the Turkish destroyer Muavenet killing 5.
1994 - In the Black Hawk Incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagles involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawks over northern Iraq, killing 29 military and civilian personnel.
2001 - American F/A-18 dropped 3 Mk-82 bombs on a friendly observation post killing six and wounding 11 at Al Udairi Range, Kuwait.
2002 - American F-16 pilot dropped a 500 lb (228 kg) bomb on Canadian soldiers performing a live-fire exercise, killing four and injuring another 8 in the Tarnak Farm incident.
2003

American aircraft attacked a friendly Kurdish & U.S. Special Forces convoy, killing 15. BBC translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed was killed and BBC reporter Tom Giles and World Affairs Editor John Simpson were injured. The incident was filmed. [11]
American Patriot missile shot down in error F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 50 mi from Karbala, Iraq, killing the pilot.
American Patriot missile shot down a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A ZG710 'D' of 13 Squadron killing the pilot and navigator, Flight Lieutenant David Rhys Williams and Flight Lieutenant Kevin Barry Main, both from 9 Squadron
British Royal Marine Christopher Maddison killed when his river patrol boat was hit by missiles after being wrongly identified as an enemy vessel approaching a Royal Engineers checkpoint on the Al-Faw Peninsula, Iraq.[6]
British Challenger 2 tank came under fire from another British tank in a nighttime firefight, blowing off the turret and killing two crew members, Corporal Stephen John Allbutt and Trooper David Jeffrey Clarke [12]
190th Fighter Squadron, Blues and Royals friendly fire incident - March 28, 2003 when a pair of American A-10s from the 190th Fighter Squadron attack four British armoured reconnaissance vehicles of the Blues and Royals, killing Lance-Corporal of Horse Matty Hull, during the invasion of Iraq.

2004 - Pat Tillman, famous American football player and friendly fire victim in Afghanistan.
2005

American soldier Mario Lozano is suspected of killing Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari and wounding Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena in Baghdad. Sgrena had been kidnapped and subsequently rescued by Calipari; however, it is claimed that the car they were escaping in failed to stop at an American checkpoint, and U.S. soldiers opened fire.
American troops opened fire on a Bulgarian convoy. Junior Sergeant Gardi Gardev was killed.

2006

During Operation Medusa, two U.S.A-10 Thunderbolt IIs strafed their own NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, killing Canadian Private Mark Anthony Graham, and seriously wounding five others when soldiers were trying to seize a Taliban stronghold along the Arghandab River. Graham was a former Canadian Olympic athlete who competed on the Canadian 4x400 Men's Relay Team at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics.
A U.S.machine gunner accidentally shot (from behind) and killed Canadian Pvt. Robert Costall and Vermont National Guard Sgt. John Thomas near Kandahar, in Afghanistan.

2007

American airstrike killed eight Kurdish Iraqi soldiers. [13]
U.S. forces kill seven Afghan police officers.[14]
One of a pair USAF F-15s called in to support British ground forces in Afganistan dropped a bomb on those forces, killing three soldiers of the 1st Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment, and injuring two others.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire

Could it be possible that there is just better documentation of US blue and blue incidents . . . remember Wikipedia is what is submitted . . . and what is editted out. It is suppose to be neutral . . . but there are dozens of articles where there is an obvious bias . . .
. . . so lets start with the US bashing . . . that's what this leads to no? That the US is evil, and the root of all evil in modern societies around the globe . . .

Lets see this what this is, an unfortunate accident. People will be blamed, people will spend time in brigs and prisons . . . and these events will still occur . . .

08-24-07, 07:14 PM

A tragedy.

War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.
William Tecumseh Sherman

Unfortunately some will not allow cruel victory, and will allow slow defeat.

What I'm about to say will not sit well with some.

If you want your soldier sons to be saved war must be total from the start until all restence is destroyed. Friendly fire may never be removed from the battlefield but prolonged danger can be minimized.

Chock · 08-24-07, 10:19 PM

This is obviously very sad, but unfortunately, it is what happens when bullets, bombs, missiles and military aeroplanes are flying around while troops are advancing, and nobody should be under any illusion that these things will not continue to happen, as long as wars do.

'Friendly fire' incidents have always happened in wars, (the first RAF Spitfire shot down in the Battle of Britain was nailed by an RAF Hurricane). Most bomber forces in WW2 used to work on the basis that up to ten percent of the force would be lost in collisions while forming up before they even set off for their target, and a proportion of the lower formations would be hit by bombs falling from aircraft flying above them. There are countless other examples I could quote too. But of course with the internet, news satellites etc etc, incidents such as these are simply more widely reported these days.

Although it often seems that the US appear to have more friedly fire incidents than other forces, I think it's fair to say the likelihood that they will, is in large part due to their numbers in comparison to other coalition forces. So proportionally, they are probably no worse than any other army in this. It's true the US gained a reputation for incidents of this nature in WW2, when they did indeed hit many Allied troops, but one has to remember that they were there in larger numbers than anyone else then as well. And everybody in the UK was glad of their numbers when they were putting ten landing craft onto the beaches at Normandy for every one the British landed there, weren't they? Incidents of this nature are the price you pay for that numerical superiority.

And yes it is true that some American servicemen have what is euphemistically termed a 'gung-ho attitude', but so do some UK servicemen and probably every other nation as well. However, the newspapers do not report stories about examplary soldiers, because that is 'boring', they only pick up on things which will outrage readers and sell newspapers. It is this kind of crap, poor editorial and journalistic integrity, which made me decide to leave the newspaper industry some years ago and write freelance instead.

When the newpapers report on all the successful missions as much as they do on the ones which go 'tits up' I'll have a bit more respect for them.

Note that, as someone queried, with regard to the A10 Thunderbolt II (or Warthog as everyone calls it) and what will happen when it retires, you might be interested to know that a contract has recently been awarded, which will see these aircraft extensively serviced, Boeing winning the contract to 're-wing' them (for example) to extend their service lives. Since the A10 is one of the best close-support aircraft ever, hopefully this, at least, will help to minimise the chances of this sort of tragic occurence.

Chock

micky1up · 08-25-07, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JALU3

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

1991 - American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacks British armoured personnel carriers killing nine British soldiers (the same number as were killed by enemy fire in the whole war).
1992 - USS Saratoga during a no-notice exercise that included a simulated RIM-7 launch; confusion ensued, and a sailor launched into the bridge of the Turkish destroyer Muavenet killing 5.
1994 - In the Black Hawk Incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagles involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawks over northern Iraq, killing 29 military and civilian personnel.
2001 - American F/A-18 dropped 3 Mk-82 bombs on a friendly observation post killing six and wounding 11 at Al Udairi Range, Kuwait.
2002 - American F-16 pilot dropped a 500 lb (228 kg) bomb on Canadian soldiers performing a live-fire exercise, killing four and injuring another 8 in the Tarnak Farm incident.
2003

American aircraft attacked a friendly Kurdish & U.S. Special Forces convoy, killing 15. BBC translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed was killed and BBC reporter Tom Giles and World Affairs Editor John Simpson were injured. The incident was filmed. [11]
American Patriot missile shot down in error F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 50 mi from Karbala, Iraq, killing the pilot.
American Patriot missile shot down a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A ZG710 'D' of 13 Squadron killing the pilot and navigator, Flight Lieutenant David Rhys Williams and Flight Lieutenant Kevin Barry Main, both from 9 Squadron
British Royal Marine Christopher Maddison killed when his river patrol boat was hit by missiles after being wrongly identified as an enemy vessel approaching a Royal Engineers checkpoint on the Al-Faw Peninsula, Iraq.[6]
British Challenger 2 tank came under fire from another British tank in a nighttime firefight, blowing off the turret and killing two crew members, Corporal Stephen John Allbutt and Trooper David Jeffrey Clarke [12]
190th Fighter Squadron, Blues and Royals friendly fire incident - March 28, 2003 when a pair of American A-10s from the 190th Fighter Squadron attack four British armoured reconnaissance vehicles of the Blues and Royals, killing Lance-Corporal of Horse Matty Hull, during the invasion of Iraq.

2004 - Pat Tillman, famous American football player and friendly fire victim in Afghanistan.
2005

American soldier Mario Lozano is suspected of killing Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari and wounding Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena in Baghdad. Sgrena had been kidnapped and subsequently rescued by Calipari; however, it is claimed that the car they were escaping in failed to stop at an American checkpoint, and U.S. soldiers opened fire.
American troops opened fire on a Bulgarian convoy. Junior Sergeant Gardi Gardev was killed.

2006

During Operation Medusa, two U.S.A-10 Thunderbolt IIs strafed their own NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, killing Canadian Private Mark Anthony Graham, and seriously wounding five others when soldiers were trying to seize a Taliban stronghold along the Arghandab River. Graham was a former Canadian Olympic athlete who competed on the Canadian 4x400 Men's Relay Team at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics.
A U.S.machine gunner accidentally shot (from behind) and killed Canadian Pvt. Robert Costall and Vermont National Guard Sgt. John Thomas near Kandahar, in Afghanistan.

2007

American airstrike killed eight Kurdish Iraqi soldiers. [13]
U.S. forces kill seven Afghan police officers.[14]
One of a pair USAF F-15s called in to support British ground forces in Afganistan dropped a bomb on those forces, killing three soldiers of the 1st Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment, and injuring two others.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire

Could it be possible that there is just better documentation of US blue and blue incidents . . . remember Wikipedia is what is submitted . . . and what is editted out. It is suppose to be neutral . . . but there are dozens of articles where there is an obvious bias . . .
. . . so lets start with the US bashing . . . that's what this leads to no? That the US is evil, and the root of all evil in modern societies around the globe . . .

Lets see this what this is, an unfortunate accident. People will be blamed, people will spend time in brigs and prisons . . . and these events will still occur . . .

absolutley not blue on blue is not a regular occurence with uk forces FACT its quiet clearly an attitude thing with the US and its not US bashing its just a plain fact and like i said its not about equipment its the people behind it you had lesser equipment in vietnam and still had a significant amount of friendly fire incidents

JALU3 · 08-25-07, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micky1up

Quote:

Originally Posted by JALU3

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

1991 - American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacks British armoured personnel carriers killing nine British soldiers (the same number as were killed by enemy fire in the whole war).
1992 - USS Saratoga during a no-notice exercise that included a simulated RIM-7 launch; confusion ensued, and a sailor launched into the bridge of the Turkish destroyer Muavenet killing 5.
1994 - In the Black Hawk Incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagles involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawks over northern Iraq, killing 29 military and civilian personnel.
2001 - American F/A-18 dropped 3 Mk-82 bombs on a friendly observation post killing six and wounding 11 at Al Udairi Range, Kuwait.
2002 - American F-16 pilot dropped a 500 lb (228 kg) bomb on Canadian soldiers performing a live-fire exercise, killing four and injuring another 8 in the Tarnak Farm incident.
2003

American aircraft attacked a friendly Kurdish & U.S. Special Forces convoy, killing 15. BBC translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed was killed and BBC reporter Tom Giles and World Affairs Editor John Simpson were injured. The incident was filmed. [11]
American Patriot missile shot down in error F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 50 mi from Karbala, Iraq, killing the pilot.
American Patriot missile shot down a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A ZG710 'D' of 13 Squadron killing the pilot and navigator, Flight Lieutenant David Rhys Williams and Flight Lieutenant Kevin Barry Main, both from 9 Squadron
British Royal Marine Christopher Maddison killed when his river patrol boat was hit by missiles after being wrongly identified as an enemy vessel approaching a Royal Engineers checkpoint on the Al-Faw Peninsula, Iraq.[6]
British Challenger 2 tank came under fire from another British tank in a nighttime firefight, blowing off the turret and killing two crew members, Corporal Stephen John Allbutt and Trooper David Jeffrey Clarke [12]
190th Fighter Squadron, Blues and Royals friendly fire incident - March 28, 2003 when a pair of American A-10s from the 190th Fighter Squadron attack four British armoured reconnaissance vehicles of the Blues and Royals, killing Lance-Corporal of Horse Matty Hull, during the invasion of Iraq.

2004 - Pat Tillman, famous American football player and friendly fire victim in Afghanistan.
2005

American soldier Mario Lozano is suspected of killing Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari and wounding Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena in Baghdad. Sgrena had been kidnapped and subsequently rescued by Calipari; however, it is claimed that the car they were escaping in failed to stop at an American checkpoint, and U.S. soldiers opened fire.
American troops opened fire on a Bulgarian convoy. Junior Sergeant Gardi Gardev was killed.

2006

During Operation Medusa, two U.S.A-10 Thunderbolt IIs strafed their own NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, killing Canadian Private Mark Anthony Graham, and seriously wounding five others when soldiers were trying to seize a Taliban stronghold along the Arghandab River. Graham was a former Canadian Olympic athlete who competed on the Canadian 4x400 Men's Relay Team at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics.
A U.S.machine gunner accidentally shot (from behind) and killed Canadian Pvt. Robert Costall and Vermont National Guard Sgt. John Thomas near Kandahar, in Afghanistan.

2007

American airstrike killed eight Kurdish Iraqi soldiers. [13]
U.S. forces kill seven Afghan police officers.[14]
One of a pair USAF F-15s called in to support British ground forces in Afganistan dropped a bomb on those forces, killing three soldiers of the 1st Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment, and injuring two others.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire

Could it be possible that there is just better documentation of US blue and blue incidents . . . remember Wikipedia is what is submitted . . . and what is editted out. It is suppose to be neutral . . . but there are dozens of articles where there is an obvious bias . . .
. . . so lets start with the US bashing . . . that's what this leads to no? That the US is evil, and the root of all evil in modern societies around the globe . . .

Lets see this what this is, an unfortunate accident. People will be blamed, people will spend time in brigs and prisons . . . and these events will still occur . . .

absolutley not blue on blue is not a regular occurence with uk forces FACT its quiet clearly an attitude thing with the US and its not US bashing its just a plain fact and like i said its not about equipment its the people behind it you had lesser equipment in vietnam and still had a significant amount of friendly fire incidents

And it's began . . . the US is evil rhetoric . . .

I didn't say that something wrong didn't occur, something had to happen for the Blue on Blue to occur . . . but to say that it is due to how our servicemembers are based on their nationality is absured and adhorrent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradclark1

I don't know why people have to jump to conclusions positively or negatively when the report on the incident hasn't even come out yet. Sheath the knives.

Exactly . . . let the investigators do their investigating. Let them find out if it was a problem with the coordinates sent, or an equipment malfunction, or a human error.

But let us not starting painting one side as the source of evil of the entire world, or the other.

Lets remember that we are in a long term fight here, with an enemy that doesn't mind dying for their cause . . . and an enemy that would wish to bring an Islamist state for what they think that God wants them to do.
They want exactly this, the bickering and infighting . . . lets focus our anger on the enemy and not our allies.

ASWnut101 · 08-25-07, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micky1up

and its all about attitude not equipment the american forces have always been too gung ho

Quote:

absolutley not blue on blue is not a regular occurence with uk forces FACT its quiet clearly an attitude thing with the US and its not US bashing its just a plain fact and like i said its not about equipment its the people behind it you had lesser equipment in vietnam and still had a significant amount of friendly fire incidents

micky1up · 08-25-07, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

Quote:

Originally Posted by micky1up

and its all about attitude not equipment the american forces have always been too gung ho

Quote:

absolutley not blue on blue is not a regular occurence with uk forces FACT its quiet clearly an attitude thing with the US and its not US bashing its just a plain fact and like i said its not about equipment its the people behind it you had lesser equipment in vietnam and still had a significant amount of friendly fire incidents

yes banging head against wall waiting for the US forces to learn from their mistakes or do you deny that your blue on blue record is even there ?

micky1up · 08-25-07, 12:19 PM

War/CampaignPercent Casualties (U.S. Military only)* World War II 21% Korea 18% Vietnam 39% Persian Gulf 52% Panama .08% Haiti 0% Iraq 41% Afghanistan 13% * Both fatal and non-fatal (These figures do not include murders or deliberate/accidental self-inflicted wounds/fatalities)

and you think these figures are acceptable ?

ASWnut101 · 08-25-07, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micky1up

yes banging head against wall waiting for the US forces to learn from their mistakes or do you deny that your blue on blue record is even there ?

I think you've got me mistaken there. Mabye I should put it this way: If I said what I meant by the smiles, then I'd proably be banned. So let's just leave them at that: Smiles.

Quote:

Proof I can publish here?
Unfortuantly not.

Taking out my butt?

I have served in excess of 18 years in the RAF.
All of it on front line aircraft.
Operated alongside US forces for most of my career to date.
Returned from the Gulf in the last 6 weeks. (Al Udeid and Basra).

So no I'm not talking out of my butt.

Really? How long have you been over there? (on your last tour of duty)

For someone who's been over there, you sure were quick to badmouth the people you faught along with...

Quote:

War/CampaignPercent Casualties (U.S. Military only)* World War II 21% Korea 18% Vietnam 39% Persian Gulf 52% Panama .08% Haiti 0% Iraq 41% Afghanistan 13% * Both fatal and non-fatal (These figures do not include murders or deliberate/accidental self-inflicted wounds/fatalities)

and you think these figures are acceptable ?

First, what are those figures of? And where did you get them?

And I never said it was "acceptable."

micky1up · 08-25-07, 06:40 PM

they are figure from the friendly fire website that collate all FF incidents from ww1 onwards

although you didnt say it was acceptable you took an offence at critisism aimed at the US forces it wasnt aimed at the US as a country

Happy Times · 08-24-07, 07:59 AM

RIP

bradclark1 · 08-24-07, 08:43 AM

Bad news. Usually friendlies calling in CAS mark their position so just this kind of incident doesn't happen. Why didn't the pilot confirm positions? Unless the pilot just totally flubbed the bomb run. The news report really doesn't say anything. I guess more information will come out later.

08-24-07, 06:45 AM	#1
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Blue on blue incident in Afghanistan U.S. bomb kills British soldiers in Afghanistan __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

08-24-07, 05:49 PM	#3
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	1991 - American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacks British armoured personnel carriers killing nine British soldiers (the same number as were killed by enemy fire in the whole war). 1992 - USS Saratoga during a no-notice exercise that included a simulated RIM-7 launch; confusion ensued, and a sailor launched into the bridge of the Turkish destroyer Muavenet killing 5. 1994 - In the Black Hawk Incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagles involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawks over northern Iraq, killing 29 military and civilian personnel. 2001 - American F/A-18 dropped 3 Mk-82 bombs on a friendly observation post killing six and wounding 11 at Al Udairi Range, Kuwait. 2002 - American F-16 pilot dropped a 500 lb (228 kg) bomb on Canadian soldiers performing a live-fire exercise, killing four and injuring another 8 in the Tarnak Farm incident. 2003 American aircraft attacked a friendly Kurdish & U.S. Special Forces convoy, killing 15. BBC translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed was killed and BBC reporter Tom Giles and World Affairs Editor John Simpson were injured. The incident was filmed. [11] American Patriot missile shot down in error F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 50 mi from Karbala, Iraq, killing the pilot. American Patriot missile shot down a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A ZG710 'D' of 13 Squadron killing the pilot and navigator, Flight Lieutenant David Rhys Williams and Flight Lieutenant Kevin Barry Main, both from 9 Squadron British Royal Marine Christopher Maddison killed when his river patrol boat was hit by missiles after being wrongly identified as an enemy vessel approaching a Royal Engineers checkpoint on the Al-Faw Peninsula, Iraq.[6] British Challenger 2 tank came under fire from another British tank in a nighttime firefight, blowing off the turret and killing two crew members, Corporal Stephen John Allbutt and Trooper David Jeffrey Clarke [12] 190th Fighter Squadron, Blues and Royals friendly fire incident - March 28, 2003 when a pair of American A-10s from the 190th Fighter Squadron attack four British armoured reconnaissance vehicles of the Blues and Royals, killing Lance-Corporal of Horse Matty Hull, during the invasion of Iraq. 2004 - Pat Tillman, famous American football player and friendly fire victim in Afghanistan. 2005 American soldier Mario Lozano is suspected of killing Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari and wounding Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena in Baghdad. Sgrena had been kidnapped and subsequently rescued by Calipari; however, it is claimed that the car they were escaping in failed to stop at an American checkpoint, and U.S. soldiers opened fire. American troops opened fire on a Bulgarian convoy. Junior Sergeant Gardi Gardev was killed. 2006 During Operation Medusa, two U.S.A-10 Thunderbolt IIs strafed their own NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, killing Canadian Private Mark Anthony Graham, and seriously wounding five others when soldiers were trying to seize a Taliban stronghold along the Arghandab River. Graham was a former Canadian Olympic athlete who competed on the Canadian 4x400 Men's Relay Team at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. A U.S.machine gunner accidentally shot (from behind) and killed Canadian Pvt. Robert Costall and Vermont National Guard Sgt. John Thomas near Kandahar, in Afghanistan. 2007 American airstrike killed eight Kurdish Iraqi soldiers. [13] U.S. forces kill seven Afghan police officers.[14] One of a pair USAF F-15s called in to support British ground forces in Afganistan dropped a bomb on those forces, killing three soldiers of the 1st Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment, and injuring two others.[7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

08-24-07, 10:19 PM	#6
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This is obviously very sad, but unfortunately, it is what happens when bullets, bombs, missiles and military aeroplanes are flying around while troops are advancing, and nobody should be under any illusion that these things will not continue to happen, as long as wars do. 'Friendly fire' incidents have always happened in wars, (the first RAF Spitfire shot down in the Battle of Britain was nailed by an RAF Hurricane). Most bomber forces in WW2 used to work on the basis that up to ten percent of the force would be lost in collisions while forming up before they even set off for their target, and a proportion of the lower formations would be hit by bombs falling from aircraft flying above them. There are countless other examples I could quote too. But of course with the internet, news satellites etc etc, incidents such as these are simply more widely reported these days. Although it often seems that the US appear to have more friedly fire incidents than other forces, I think it's fair to say the likelihood that they will, is in large part due to their numbers in comparison to other coalition forces. So proportionally, they are probably no worse than any other army in this. It's true the US gained a reputation for incidents of this nature in WW2, when they did indeed hit many Allied troops, but one has to remember that they were there in larger numbers than anyone else then as well. And everybody in the UK was glad of their numbers when they were putting ten landing craft onto the beaches at Normandy for every one the British landed there, weren't they? Incidents of this nature are the price you pay for that numerical superiority. And yes it is true that some American servicemen have what is euphemistically termed a 'gung-ho attitude', but so do some UK servicemen and probably every other nation as well. However, the newspapers do not report stories about examplary soldiers, because that is 'boring', they only pick up on things which will outrage readers and sell newspapers. It is this kind of crap, poor editorial and journalistic integrity, which made me decide to leave the newspaper industry some years ago and write freelance instead. When the newpapers report on all the successful missions as much as they do on the ones which go 'tits up' I'll have a bit more respect for them. Note that, as someone queried, with regard to the A10 Thunderbolt II (or Warthog as everyone calls it) and what will happen when it retires, you might be interested to know that a contract has recently been awarded, which will see these aircraft extensively serviced, Boeing winning the contract to 're-wing' them (for example) to extend their service lives. Since the A10 is one of the best close-support aircraft ever, hopefully this, at least, will help to minimise the chances of this sort of tragic occurence. Chock __________________

08-24-07, 07:59 AM	#14
Happy Times Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 2,950 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	RIP __________________

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08-24-07, 05:24 PM	#2
micky1up Captain Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: helensburgh Posts: 525 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	amazing how its never a uk on uk incident it always involves a US force when will they ever learn and its all about attitude not equipment the american forces have always been too gung ho

08-24-07, 07:14 PM	#5
waste gate Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	A tragedy. War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over. William Tecumseh Sherman Unfortunately some will not allow cruel victory, and will allow slow defeat. What I'm about to say will not sit well with some. If you want your soldier sons to be saved war must be total from the start until all restence is destroyed. Friendly fire may never be removed from the battlefield but prolonged danger can be minimized.

08-25-07, 12:19 PM	#11
micky1up Captain Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: helensburgh Posts: 525 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	War/CampaignPercent Casualties (U.S. Military only)* World War II 21% Korea 18% Vietnam 39% Persian Gulf 52% Panama .08% Haiti 0% Iraq 41% Afghanistan 13% * Both fatal and non-fatal (These figures do not include murders or deliberate/accidental self-inflicted wounds/fatalities) and you think these figures are acceptable ?

08-25-07, 06:40 PM	#13
micky1up Captain Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: helensburgh Posts: 525 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	they are figure from the friendly fire website that collate all FF incidents from ww1 onwards although you didnt say it was acceptable you took an offence at critisism aimed at the US forces it wasnt aimed at the US as a country

08-24-07, 08:43 AM	#15
bradclark1 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA. Posts: 2,794 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Bad news. Usually friendlies calling in CAS mark their position so just this kind of incident doesn't happen. Why didn't the pilot confirm positions? Unless the pilot just totally flubbed the bomb run. The news report really doesn't say anything. I guess more information will come out later.