How many kills would a Kilo be expected to make?

Originally Posted by Ula Jolly

On a more serious note, if you place the Kilo in Argentinian or Norwegian littoral waters in a defensive position, she WILL mess up your fleet, as was seen on Joint Winter '04 IIRC. *COUGH HMS Invincible and half the landing fleet to the bottom because of one di/el sub /COUGH*
Probably the proudest moment in the Norwegian subfleet's history.
Photo courtesy of www.mil.no

HMS "Invincible" is a misnomer. It's a blimming dwarf carrier...

"oh look...it's HMS Invincible" *pause* *laughter*. Bwahahaha! :rotfl:

Actually, there's a Clancy novel where the Soviets laugh at HMS Invincible...was it Red Storm Rising? :hmm:

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

HMS "Invincible" is a misnomer. It's a blimming dwarf carrier...

"oh look...it's HMS Invincible" *pause* *laughter*. Bwahahaha! :rotfl:

Actually, there's a Clancy novel where the Soviets laugh at HMS Invincible...was it Red Storm Rising? :hmm:

yep, that's one of the reasons why I hate British ship names...might as well name them names like the HMS "I so Awesome" or the HMS "I'm so Great" Ship names should have meaning, pride, but never haughtyness IMHO

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Actually, there's a Clancy novel where the Soviets laugh at HMS Invincible...was it Red Storm Rising? :hmm:

Umm no. It was THFRO and I think Ramius was complenting the ships name.

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Umm no. It was THFRO and I think Ramius was complenting the ships name.

You were right, it was THFRO, though you are wrong when you say Ramius compliments the ship's name.

'Periscope,' Ramius said calmly. The oiled metal tube hissed upward on hydraulic pressure. The captain handed his cap to the junior officer of the watch as he bent to look into the eyepiece. 'So, we have three imperialist ships. HMS Invincible. Such a name for a ship! He scoffed for his audience.

I don't think scoffing can be considered a compliment.

P.S. Took less than 2 minutes to find that paragraph. HFRO is superbly laid out...read it and you'll see what I mean.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

You were right, it was THFRO, though you are wrong when you say Ramius compliments the ship's name.

'Periscope,' Ramius said calmly. The oiled metal tube hissed upward on hydraulic pressure. The captain handed his cap to the junior officer of the watch as he bent to look into the eyepiece. 'So, we have three imperialist ships. HMS Invincible. Such a name for a ship! He scoffed for his audience.

I don't think scoffing can be considered a compliment.

P.S. Took less than 2 minutes to find that paragraph. HFRO is superbly laid out...read it and you'll see what I mean.

I forgot the scoffing part. I just remembed "Such a name for a ship!"

And yes I have read it about 4 times.

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

I forgot the scoffing part. I just remembed "Such a name for a ship!"

And yes I have read it about 4 times.

I've read it 3 times. So easy to read...the words flow. Clancy lost the ability to do that later on. To be honest and for your defence (and the reason why you probably didn't remember it as an insult on his part), is because the quote I gave you is slightly out of context.
Because...at the time he scofs at the name, Ramius is trying not to give the game away that he's defecting...thus he's trying to put on a show for the ones who aren't involved and give them the impression he still hates the west. So it's a fake scoff. So let's say it's 50/50 on who's right or wrong.

[MaHuJa]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Clancy lost the ability to do that later on.

Perhaps when he stopped writing his own books...

Though at least I doubt they're as rich on factual errors as Dan Browns books.

I don't read either, though; Nowadays I'm reading "The design and evolution of c++"
Or the wheel of time. Neither of which has anything at all to do with submarines.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by MaHuJa

Perhaps when he stopped writing his own books...

Or perhaps when Larry Bond stoped writting them for him. :hmm:

Originally Posted by MaHuJa

Perhaps when he stopped writing his own books...

Though at least I doubt they're as rich on factual errors as Dan Browns books.

I don't read either, though; Nowadays I'm reading "The design and evolution of c++"
Or the wheel of time. Neither of which has anything at all to do with submarines.

Yes, that too. Though I meant from The Sum of all Fears onwards. Without Remorse was a major disappointment...crime fiction Clancy? WTF was that? And there I was right up to the last chapter waiting for this Vietnam covert mission to take off (WARNING!!!! SPOILER AHEAD) ......................................woops aborted. By the way...did he take the plot from Rambo 2? Because it's very similar. Anyway...then after that he did Debt of Honour which you can skip the first 400 pages (can you say BLOATWARE???...I mean, do we really need a laymans description on how a theoretical collapse of the international stock markets could take place..oh perlease!) after that and towards the end, it does get very good though...two books in one. And the sequel is OK.

Though his critics got it right when they say his patriotism towards the end (and he plainly changes into a grumpy old-man before our eyes) makes him lose touch with reality. All of a sudden the US has become the Super Duper Power we all know only exists in Hollywood. I call it the "Independence Day Syndrome". 'We'll save the world and humanity all by ourselves'. :rotfl:

Sorry...I went off on a rant about Clancy. Didn't notice..

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Or perhaps when Larry Bond stoped writting them for him. :hmm:

That's funny you should say that. Has anyone else noticed how the one he supposedly wrote with Larry Bond (Red Storm Rising) is full of typos? I presume Tom left them in to show it's a poorer work of fiction then the ones he wrote on his own. Nothing else can explain it...there are MANY errors in that book. Though Larry lost rights to that book considering he's only mentioned in one line. It also says they had a falling out....you don't say? LOL

[FERdeBOER]

WOW!! Great post! Very fun and great ideas.

Is incredible how the question has derived to speak about planes, air warfare, religion...

About praying... first, I'm sure an Iman could interpretate the Coran someway to say: "If pray makes your people die, your are free to not pray."
And also don't forget that dying fighting against the enemy makes you go to heaven, so I think they are free to not pray on patrol if it implies a risk.
Christians and Jewish also interpretate their sacred writtings, all do that for their beneffit.
Second... they can pray in turns, don't they? If they rotate for duties, I think some of them can pray while others work, and then change the sides.
And if all of this is forbbiden and they have to pray all toghether at the same time even if they are evading an incomming torpedo, I'm sure they will not pray.

About ship names... if you want to joke, you can do it with any name, no need to be "Invincible" or something like that, but I think names are important, but that importance has two sides, you will be very proud to serve on the Invincible, but if she's sunk... the morale of the enemy will grow equal than yours decrease, because it was "The Invincible".
None of this happens if you call it "HMS (or USS) Guinea Pig :rotfl: (my respect for all guinea pigs).

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

That's funny you should say that. Has anyone else noticed how the one he supposedly wrote with Larry Bond (Red Storm Rising) is full of typos? I presume Tom left them in to show it's a poorer work of fiction then the ones he wrote on his own. Nothing else can explain it...there are MANY errors in that book. Though Larry lost rights to that book considering he's only mentioned in one line. It also says they had a falling out....you don't say? LOL

I only noticed one or two typos, maybe my book is a newer print. Most around here consider RSR to be one of Clancy's best books and Bond's Dangerous Ground to be one of the best sub books ever so if he was trying to ruin Bond with poor spelling I think he failed.

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

Second... they can pray in turns, don't they? If they rotate for duties, I think some of them can pray while others work, and then change the sides.

I think have specific times to pray each day. Really anoying considering they are sleeping on 2 or 3 shift rotations.

"Hay Saeed wake up for Prayers!"
"Manyuok Amir I just got off a 6 hour Port/Starbord shift."

TLAM...the reason I mention the typos, is because there are very very few in any of his other books, including the one written (or at least distributed) before, namely HFRO. I also have one of the last prints made (they stopped reprinting after the 20th time, I think), yet found at least 50 typos, if not more. It was really beginning to put me off...I'm a stickler for that sort of thing.

Though does everyone here remember Red Storm Rising? I've read it twice (which I'm proud of considering it's over 800 pages long). A large chunk of the book is set on Iceland, with that marine helping the girl whos parents get shot by the Soviets, remember? A lot of it was also about the land battle in Germany and the political battle with the evil KGB head who blows up the kiddies visiting the Kremlin. Maybe people forget...but...the vast majority of the book isn't about naval battles.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Though his critics got it right when they say his patriotism towards the end (and he plainly changes into a grumpy old-man before our eyes) makes him lose touch with reality. All of a sudden the US has become the Super Duper Power we all know only exists in Hollywood. I call it the "Independence Day Syndrome". 'We'll save the world and humanity all by ourselves'. :rotfl:

Sorry...I went off on a rant about Clancy. Didn't notice..

Actually, I think he just submerged it a bit better before. Gulf War 91 gave him all the reason he needed to drop all caution and turn the US into the Martians.

Though does everyone here remember Red Storm Rising? I've read it twice (which I'm proud of considering it's over 800 pages long). A large chunk of the book is set on Iceland, with that marine helping the girl whos parents get shot by the Soviets, remember? A lot of it was also about the land battle in Germany and the political battle with the evil KGB head who blows up the kiddies visiting the Kremlin. Maybe people forget...but...the vast majority of the book isn't about naval battles.

I've read it forty times, minimum. Over the years and re-reading, I became more critical. And it wasn't a Marine. It was a USAF Lt, who managed to bump into some Marines before bugging out of Keflavik.

Absolutely right Kazuaki, on both accounts. I noticed I made a mistake later but didn't bother editing...they called him a "wing-wiper" or something along those lines if I remember correctly (got the book somewhere else, so can't check).