Libyan No-Fly Zone res. passed by UN

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MH

Can you explain why you have a problem about Germany not joining the show.

Has my attitude on this issue not become clear by my past comments? I cannot believe that.

I only have to add to those past comments that once again there is such a discrepancy between what German politicians demand and claim - and what they really do and help to accieve.

What I think should have been done, I already said three weeks ago, on March 1st:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=221

Me and us and all underestimated Gaddafi'S potential back then, okay. But still I and some other board members were 3 weeks ahead of current events.

Even the Danes, not being known for havcing that huge an airforce, were able and willing to send 6 F-16s.

Beyond that, the article I just linked to imo is absolutely correct. It is a bigotery that the Germans seriously thought all the world would beleive and follow their infantile hoping for the fairy queen if only their words would be tough enough, but when action was needed, they stood up against all their Western allies. Germany has just illustrated why its attempt to get a full seat in the UN-SC's b ig five, is just wishful thinkling, and should not be allowed. Now Merkel and Westerwelle try to get away with that by now sending AWACS personell to Afghanistan - what until just two days ago also was a big no-no for the German government. What has all of a sudden changed the former reasons for the German refusal to send more AWACS to Afghanistan...?!

The essay I linked, correctly said that this oppsiton of Ger,many over Lybia, does not compare to the oppsoition back in 2003, over Iraq, becasue then all the Wetsd and Eurpope weas divided and deeply split. But now, the Western states are united, or so it seems, and the action is in support of what Germany has been one of the loudest to demand.

But when it came to deeds to full those words with meaning and seriousness, Germany faltered. Instead, we are now being mentioned in one breath with China, Russia, Brasil and India, all of which support(ed) Gaddafi over pure economic interests. Great company we have chosen over this matter.

[CCIP]

BBC has just reported that a French plane had "opened fire on a military vehicle".

So whatever that means, I guess it has started.

[Oberon]

It does look that way. Dassault is going to get a work-out.

The Charles De Gaulle CV is heading further into the Med. Looks like the French are taking the lead in this, which I imagine the US will be only too happy to let them, given the stigma both the US and UK have over Iraq and Afghanistan.

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Hillary Clinton

5.02pm: US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, has said that while the US will not deploy ground troops in Libya "there should be no mistaking our commitment to this effort".

She told a press conference after the Paris summit that the US would help its European and Canadian allies and Arab partners stop Gaddafi from attacking the Libyan people.

Colonel Gaddafi continues to defy the world and his attacks on civilians go on... As President Obama has said, we have every reason to fear that left unchecked, Gaddafi will commit unspeakable atrocities. We all recognise that further delay will only put more civilians at risk.

Let me be clear about the position of the US. We will support an international coalition as it takes all necessary measures to enforce the terms of Resolution 1973. French planes were in the air as we were meeting and there will be other actions to follow. There is no doubt that we will begin to enforce the resolution.

well, the only thing that could make this even remotely entertaining is if the USA stays out of it. It would be worth it to see what France and Britain alone can do. There was a time each nation could simultaneously fight 3 Libyas in different continents.

But that's unlikely to be the case. No one wants to miss out on a chance for some righteous bomb throwing

Hillary Clinton says we "should not doubt our commitment" to form a huge high tech alliance that can smash up another third world s--theap.

I like her official use of *things we fear gaddafi might do* as justification. It is the world of August!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CCIP

BBC has just reported that a French plane had "opened fire on a military vehicle".

So whatever that means, I guess it has started.

A French plane has fired the first shots in Libya as enforcement of the UN-mandated no-fly zone begins. The target was a military vehicle, the French defence ministry said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12795971

[CCIP]

BBC:

1748: French aircraft have destroyed four Libyan tanks in air strikes to the south-west of Benghazi, Al-Jazeera television has reported

I'm guessing they're plinking these with LGBs from high altitude?

[TLAM Strike]

From BBC news photos: USN EA-18G Growlers have been forward deployed to Italy for SEAD missions.

Also the Rebel MiG-23 that was shot down, looks like the pilot bailed out but its unclear if he survived.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Also the Rebel MiG-23 that was shot down, looks like the pilot bailed out but its unclear if he survived.

Doesn't seem terribly likely that he did

I was looking at photos earlier and the chute still looks very much closed as he's about to hit the ground.

Can you explain why you have a problem about Germany not joining the show.

MH , he would also have a problem if they did join the show, its just the way it is.
If Germany had joined in it would be a secret EU conspiracy with american imperialism being run by the shia who are the sunni in conjunction with Erdogan and the greater plan to breed civilisation out of existance.
If Merkel had gone along with it she would be bowing down to Islamic fundamentlists and crazy arabs, if she didn't then she would be cowtowing to crazy fundamentalists and pandering to arab dictators.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Doesn't seem terribly likely that he did

I was looking at photos earlier and the chute still looks very much closed as he's about to hit the ground.

Even if he did survive I should imagine he would be dead a minute or two later as a direct consequence of the actions of his welcoming committee

[MH]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

well, the only thing that could make this even remotely entertaining is if the USA stays out of it. It would be worth it to see what France and Britain alone can do. There was a time each nation could simultaneously fight 3 Libyas in different continents.

But that's unlikely to be the case. No one wants to miss out on a chance for some righteous bomb throwing

Hillary Clinton says we "should not doubt our commitment" to form a huge high tech alliance that can smash up another third world s--theap.

I like her official use of *things we fear gaddafi might do* as justification. It is the world of August!

As it seems US went along with UK and France in this case.
Not the other way around.

[Freiwillige]

I think Germany made the sound choice in sitting this one out. I keep reading in the headlines how Daffy duck is slaughtering civilians, which is probably true to some extent but in a civil war any rebel who is injured suddenly can become a civilian casualty to the media since he is not in uniform!

I doubt Daffy duck is ordering wholesale slaughter of civilians. It seems as if his military is fighting a legitimate armed uprising.

Daffy duck said it best in his own words to Obama "What would you do if armed rebels took one of your cities by force?" Hmmm lets think about that for a minute, Any time a US state goes rogue the US government has crushed the rebellion with force or threats of force. (See US civil war)

Granted that was a long time ago but lets say for shivs and giggles Texas pulled a Stufu to the Government and said peace were out! How long before the tanks would be rolling in?

Until I know that he is targeting civilians not militants I say its a personal issue let them sort it out.

[joegrundman]

egos are at stake, now freiwillige! It's curtains for gaddafi

[CCIP]

I'm not for war in any regard, but I don't think there's any sense in defending Gaddafi or suggesting that his response to this is anything but brutal. The problem is that all of this is coming years if not decades too late. He's already done the damage.

Meanwhile, neat pictures of the Canadian jets checking in and out in Scotland. Looks like these are in theater by now.

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by CCIP

I'm not for war in any regard, but I don't think there's any sense in defending Gaddafi or suggesting that his response to this is anything but brutal. The problem is that all of this is coming years if not decades too late. He's already done the damage.

Meanwhile, neat pictures of the Canadian jets checking in and out in Scotland. Looks like these are in theater by now.

a) how do you know his suppression of the rebellion is especially brutal given that this rebellion is armed? Please elaborate on the nature of this brutality - are there for example mass executions of prisoners that you know about?

b) kindly elaborate on this sentence because i don't know what damage you mean, specifically over the last decade.

The problem is that all of this is coming years if not decades too late. He's already done the damage.