Europe's migrant problem

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon U-48

I wonder why they didn't set up refugee camps in Syrian and Iraqi areas that weren't under threat and deal with them there.

Think it through, once the aid camps were up and running the bad guys would use it as a base for rest/resupply all on someone else's dime. so what are you actually accomplishing other than removing the immediate problem of dealing with refugees inside your borders? Until the fighting stops in that region the problem won't be fixed. The way I see it there are 2 options to "solve" the refugee problem and neither one will be particularly palatable to most.

1. Repatriate refugees to their country of origin and tell them to get their own house in order.

2. Repatriate refugees to their country of origin and put their house in order for them.

To sum it up. The refugees are a symptom of a problem, you need to solve the problem first, then you can deal appropriately with the refugees.

(I tend to think faster than I type, and a message forum isn't the best medium to discuss complex issues without a wall of text, so before you castigate me, understand I've probably already run through a majority of the buts/what ifs.)

[Dan D]

The upcoming EU-Turkey refugee summit in March should be interesting.

If Merkels plan A should fail, then plan B may come into effect, or even plan C: Germany closes its borders, too.

[Betonov]

I Germany closes it's borders, Austria will.
That means we have to close border ONE WEEK PRIOR, or else the overflow will happen here.

[Betonov]

The region is still smoldering.
The pressure of the Balkan route could spark another conflict. Right now Slovenia and Macedonia are taking the brunt of it and as soon as Austria closes up, Slovenia will follow, so will Croatia and then we're left with Bosnia that can't take care of it's own people.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by MaDef

.[..] To sum it up. The refugees are a symptom of a problem, you need to solve the problem first, then you can deal appropriately with the refugees.

Exactly. Refugees are the symptom. But the countries having caused the initial desease, do not show much will to cure it, and do not show much energy against the symptoms either.
Other than to leave this embarrassing outcome to others.

Bush once called the nations supporting the invasion of Iraq the "coalition of the willing". If i remember right, Poland was a member, too, like the UK. And Turkey, and Poland, and Romania, and Denmark ... not Germany, and not France. Which is why "Pommes Frites" have been renamed to "Freedom fries", if i remember right. I guess we were the Nazis, as usual.

Now it is the the coalition of the unwilling.

[Jimbuna]

Turkey probably holds the only tangible hope atm but I'm not overly sure they actually want to.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Exactly. Refugees are the symptom. But the countries having caused the initial desease, do not show much will to cure it, and do not show much energy against the symptoms either.
Other than to leave this embarrassing outcome to others.

Bush once called the nations supporting the invasion of Iraq the "coalition of the willing". If i remember right, Poland was a member, too, like the UK. And Turkey, and Poland, and Romania, and Denmark ... not Germany, and not France. Which is why "Pommes Frites" have been renamed to "Freedom fries", if i remember right. I guess we were the Nazis, as usual.

Now it is the the coalition of the unwilling.

I suppose that could be a valid arguement if all of the refugees were just coming from Syria and Iraq which you claim Germany and France have nothing to do with. But how do you explain or where do you place blame for those coming from Afghanistan, Sudan, Pakistan, Eritrea, Libya, Morroco and other countries jail cells?

Here's a few symptoms you brought on yourselves: It was your government that pretty much put the word out on the street "we welcome refugees" that got these people flowing to Europe for a free ride and photo ops with your chancellor at the expense of German tax payers. And if this open door immigration policy really does have something to do with declining birth rates and creating a larger German workforce why isnt Germany more selective in its hiring process?

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Exactly. Refugees are the symptom. But the countries having caused the initial desease, do not show much will to cure it, and do not show much energy against the symptoms either.
Other than to leave this embarrassing outcome to others.

Bush once called the nations supporting the invasion of Iraq the "coalition of the willing". If i remember right, Poland was a member, too, like the UK. And Turkey, and Poland, and Romania, and Denmark ... not Germany, and not France. Which is why "Pommes Frites" have been renamed to "Freedom fries", if i remember right. I guess we were the Nazis, as usual.

Now it is the the coalition of the unwilling.

You'll get no argument from me on that point, The U.S. is currently doing nothing more in the region other than maintaining the current "status Quo", and until she decides whether she's going to fish or cut bait, the EU is going to have a refugee problem. It might behoove Europe to put more pressure on the U.S. to jump start the process.

as an aside: any EU country that didn't see the mass exodus out of North Africa and the Middle East back in 2011 was napping.

[Catfish]

@Rockstar;
Hey i was in the midst of a good rant, don't rain in my parade

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I suppose that could be a valid arguement if all of the refugees were just coming from Syria and Iraq which you claim Germany and France have nothing to do with. But how do you explain or where do you place blame for those coming from Afghanistan, Sudan, Pakistan, Eritrea, Libya, Morroco and other countries jail cells?

?
http://de.statista.com/statistik/dat...asylbewerbern/

https://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlag...ublicationFile


You are of course right if you say that it was our government, which "... pretty much put the word out on the street "we welcome refugees" that got these people flowing to Europe for a free ride and photo ops with your chancellor at the expense of German tax payers."

I take it there are two major reasons the CDU party did what it did (it wasn't Angela Merkel alone, even if some within the party oppose her).

First, there still is the historic malus of the 3rd Reich, so Germany does not want to be put in the Nazi corner again.
(I could say it does not matter what we do 'cause we will of course always be "the Nazis", look at the "Sun" and some "patriotic" foreigners.)
But, guaranteeing fugitives shelter against suppression and threat of being killed is a treaty not Germany alone has signed. No one would say that Syrians from e.g. Aleppo are not under a very direct threat.

Second, skilled foreigners are indeed welcomed in Germany. There is a lack of such here. Indirectly different cultures also add to a cultural enrichment, with fresh ideas and a different take on certain problems.
There will always be violators and idiots, but if you look at criminal statistics there is no significant rise in foreign crime.

Media love to blow things up out of proportion and bad news is good news for them, but everyone should be aware that every crime committted by a foreigner is being shown publicly, in every broadcast and as an example, while the good old native german robbers, rapers and thieves do what they ever did without getting the attention they deserve.

The problem Merkel and her supporters have is the public opinion, which can so easily be manipulated by right wingers.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Media love to blow things up out of proportion and bad news is good news for them, but everyone should be aware that every crime committted by a foreigner is being shown publicly, in every broadcast and as an example, while the good old native german robbers, rapers and thieves do what they ever did without getting the attention they deserve.

Strange, to me it looked to be the other way around. Police stations usually didn't mention the nationality or ethnicity of a suspect out of fear of being labeled racist.
May I ask where that info comes from that the media doesn't publish "German" crimes while going for foreign ones only?

[Catfish]

I expect indeed that the crime rate has risen, and it has a lot to do with immigrants. I have talked to several policemen, and the truth is between the lines.. they are being requested to thoroughly examine what they tell the media, however this does not mean that they lie.

https://guidograndt.wordpress.com/20...at-die-fakten/

http://www.strafrecht-wi.de/auslaenderkriminalitaet/

https://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/Sin...litaet234.html

http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschl...d_5260013.html

http://zddk.eu/groups/berichte-von-e...rch-migranten/

For every link denying foreign crimes, you can find two that tell you the govenment is lying and "they" try to sweep it all under the carpet. But unfortunately those last-mentioned links mostly use words like "Lügenpresse", AfD, "Überfremdung" etc.
(B.t.w. the word "Lügenpresse" was invented and used by Mr. Goebbels, to discredit the press that was not in line with the NSDAP. When i read this word, just like a political "Bewegung", i become either very reluctant or "aggressiv großdeutsch", ABER IM KAISERLICHEN SINN)

Organized crime has always been the main problem, it is indeed rising and being dominated by people from abroad. Most come from Latvia and Turkey, but it is organized cime that is active since decades, and does not consist of refugees.


And then, there's the Islamophobia Industry, like that notorious Gladstone institute:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...ight-terrorism
We can thank institutes like that for the daily hubbub we can read in the western press, about our immigrant problems. Of course, they do NOT see it as their's.

[mapuc]

I have always said we are not at war against Islam, but against the radical Islam.

The latest happenings, have made me wonder, if these radical or ordinary Muslims are not doing everything they can to provoke a religious war not only against them self(a religious civil war) but also a war against the West and our way of living

On Danish TV a undercover Muslim has shown that even in these moderate Mosque their Imam is preaching hate and other subversive the their members

Markus

Originally Posted by mapuc

I have always said we are not at war against Islam, but against the radical Islam.

Where's the difference?

Islam = Quran
Quran = Sharia
Sharia = Radical

There's no such thing as non-radical Islam. There's Islam and that's it.

[Reece]

That's right!! Carry on dudes!!

[Rockstar]

Gladstone, alternet, news paper, media oulets, phobias are not going to drive young muslims to radical imans.

Whats going to drive them to your socalled radical islam are those who open the door to an uncontrolled flood of refugees. Enticing them with the promise of jobs, homes and handouts. However when these young impressionable refugees arrive and find out there are no jobs and only tent cities and slums to live in. Then problems will arise.