Jungmanns Die Hard Project ALPHA (CHECK 1st post)

[gouldjg]

Ok I just tried the 500 ft thing to prolong instant death.

Timetraveller had on lock on his program so I could not put the new setting in even If I changed CFG.

I would appreciate if someone who knows how to could just add 200mtrs to maximam crushdephs for this test.


I can set all the compartments to a really high armour and HP but I do not think it will effect hull.

Let me try and report back to you.

[Marhkimov]

First, manually change the .cfg file for each sub to any max depth value of more than 500 meters (for instance, 600 meters), and then use timetraveller's randomizer tool to set up your desired crush depths.

That should do the trick...

[Jungman]

Well, for one YOU are not NOT meant to to survive the U-505 scenario.

I and oRGY have looked at changing the active sonar depths range to give you some chance to escape. Only late year Sword Type 144A was good enough to track your ass 300 meters below wter and in reality it was that and U-505 died.

I have the menu.ini changes. For starers, I am using the one from RuB 1.44. Now I have not made background pics for all four sub types yet. this one file will work on all of them. The only thing is you will not see the name of the comparment above itself. You will still see the Big symbol.

later I am going to add directly onto the background screen TGA by hand the Names back in. I though I could find the TGA that controls the screen pattern but it is all defined in the menu.ini. I am starting with the Type 7 first. But it is ready to go, the basic Menu.ini, from RuB 1.44. You can test all with it. Adding the background comparment name is only a small cosmetic addition.

Hedgehogs were very deadly. They sank several very fast in a circle pattern to hit you and several to make sure they could hit you close (carpet bombing). It is not a strong bombs, you could survive one or two but that was it, meant to get you to surface being wounded (then they killed you out of spite ).

They killed 75% of Uboat and new late war sonar that way. The Uboat was dead until the new XXI came out -a true modern submarine (though it is not model correct in game).

But Sunday is time for family. I am here in USA. Most of you are eight hours ahead of me in time. I'll post this version for gouldjd to use for testing (without the small background compartment change yet, give me tomorrow and you can add it ).

I have another question for gouldjd. Shall we eliminate the Watch Officers menu ability to instantly call all men to the Deck Gun or Flak (even the watch crew)? It is the last mass movement commands via WO command menu?? Very important since it needs to be nerf in diese version auf menu.ini. :hmm:

[gouldjg]

Well tried the armour and high HP and as suspected this does not effect hull integrity.

I have played u505 8 times not and have come to the conclusion that the damage recieved is pretty accurate as Jungman states.

Again I gave them the slip after they detected me when I really wanted to. Thank god for decoys.

Before anyone can look at this issue again we need to find hull integrity controllers which most people suspect is hardcoded.

Anyway my new system should be better but will not rid the hull problem.


Jungman

Yes disable that function if you can. It is quicker hopping to f7 and moving men than it was using that anyway.

I am eagerly awaiting your changes.

I may be able to get this wrapped up for tommorow at midnight uk time. If not it should be definetly tuesday release. Then all thats left is to get feedback of more players and see what the majority wants tweaked.

Like I said. Once we get this framework together, adjusting it should be simpla as Jungman has now provided the rules that everyone has to play bye to see the benefit in the system as a whole.

[Jungman]

gouldjg,

Here is the menu.ini from RuB 1.44 that disables mass clicking and orders. Now it is rough since I do not run RuB, I am getting around to it.

In RuB, the Navigator has no magic way to tell the weather while under water. So that command is delegated to the Watch officer. I agree. I think I will include that into my custom model also.

So in my changes, I hope it works for you. I had distortion on the weather report icon, but expected since I am not running full RuB.

I had to make this beta blind for full pure RuB 1.44. Also no changes to english text is included. I did make some, but I think it is not necesary right now for download. I just call them 'Officers Quarters' and 'Off Duty Quarters'.

You will find only the compartment symbols show up in the crew screen with no name after them. The names for comparments will have to be typed into the background crew screen. It may have to be different for all four model types used in game II, VII, IX, XX. FIXED in the next version.

I did not include a modifed crew screen background with the stations typed back in yet. That takes some time doing it by hand.

I need some feedback in that you are running pure RuB in regards to the commands and mass clicking.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6381852/H...4_768.rar.html

EDIT: I figured out how to add text symbols through the menu.ini interface! :P That means I can add the Compartment names back in without having to mess with the crew screen background TGA. So only one mod will need to be used for all Uboat types. Thank God for small favors...next update soon.

I think I may even figure how to link a symbol back to an action. Would it not be nice to have the stop watch also on the TDC and Navigation map screen and actually have it work!

[gouldjg]

Great work

I will test all this at 5 pm after work.

I think I may even figure how to link a symbol back to an action. Would it not be nice to have the stop watch also on the TDC and Navigation map screen and actually have it work!

I think there will be a hell of a lot of pleased people if that stop watch could be moved to navigation room and tdc.

[gouldjg]

I just tried the menu

Great it works.

Now it is just a case of tidying up that screen. I can acually live without the text above compartments but others may prefer the test.

Jungman

Just out of interest,

Would you now know how to limit the ammount of men that could be sent to the repair station.

For example only allow 4 to 5 men in total.

I see emergency repairs really was set for flooding, I can now tweak flooding accorngly .

with 1 man it would take 53 minutes and the compartment would have been full in 60 min.

with 2 it went to 40 min

with 3 it went to 35

so on so on.

When I had eight men in the compartment and the officer it would have been repaired in 4 minutes.

4 minutes is good but I would prefer to get a higher repiar time i.e. 20 min.

I can set the flooding to be close to this figure.

We can have things between minor leak and major leak.

IMHO the repair crew would be much better if only 5 men max were allowed into that compartment.

[Jungman]

I know where the data is that determines the effiecinecy of a given department; you seen it before and wonder what it was for.

I fooled with it before and I can set it were one man gives full effecient or it would take 30 men in the comparment leading it being very hard to increase the effeciency. Then I would change the 'effeciency bar' above that Damage Control dept so it would be more logical.

So 'Yes'.

Plus I got three of the new TGA alpha with the Text done and they all work with all the Uboats.

Basic.cfg contols minimum number and effeciency points. DC is ?.

[COMPARTMENT]
NumberOfCrew0=15
Interval1_0=7.1
Interval2_0=9.6
Interval3_0=19.7

NumberOfCrew1=6
Interval1_1=3.0
Interval2_1=4.1
Interval3_1=8.5

NumberOfCrew2=9
Interval1_2=4.6
Interval2_2=6
Interval3_2=12.1

NumberOfCrew3=12
Interval1_3=6.1
Interval2_3=7.8
Interval3_3=16

NumberOfCrew4=8
Interval1_4=4.1
Interval2_4=5.3
Interval3_4=11

NumberOfCrew5=10
Interval1_5=5.1
Interval2_5=6.5
Interval3_5=13.7

NumberOfCrew6=7
Interval1_6=3.7
Interval2_6=4.7
Interval3_6=9.7

NumberOfCrew7=5
Interval1_7=2.7
Interval2_7=3.5
Interval3_7=7.3

NumberOfCrew8=3
Interval1_8=1.6
Interval2_8=2.3
Interval3_8=4.65

NumberOfCrew9=4
Interval1_9=2.2
Interval2_9=2.9
Interval3_9=6.1

NumberOfCrew10=14
Interval1_10=6.5
Interval2_10=8.2
Interval3_10=14.3

NumberOfCrew11=2
Interval1_11=1.1
Interval2_11=1.7
Interval3_11=4.1

NumberOfCrew12=1
Interval1_12=0.5
Interval2_12=0.7
Interval3_12=1.1

[gouldjg]

So are you saying that we could have the repair compartment set so that even with 8 men, we can reduce their efficiency to the same as 3-5 men.

Can we change the figures to just work the repair station or is this a universal setting that just goes by ammount of men in any compartment?

If you have mastered the crews workrate in each department I suspect much is possible.

It is just a case on what intervals mean and getting a feel for the settings.

So here are my quetions

1. Can we reduce efficiency in the repair station alone so that it does not effect efficiency in other compartments.

2. If a yes to the above could you aim at making the repair compartment reduction to it represents 3 men max. I know quals and other factors will effect them but I do feel this would make the game more dynamic in that area.


3. Do you know what the intervals represent?


4. Just out of pure interest and maybe something for the future. With regards to Depth charges. Is it at all possible to get a longer pause between each drop of a dc.

My thinking here is as follows. The DD are pretty accurate even with the latest tweaks.

Now if I run straight and a DD is above me dropping Dc in my direct path, this game is very unforgiving when you attempt to turn out of his line of dropped DC. I suspect in real life this was the same also.

I would much prefer a slightly longer gap between each drop so should I get hit by the first and mabe second, I may just have that bit more time to have steered out of the path before 3rd and 4th strike. The 3rd and 4th would still be close to u-boat so would would suspect we still feel it.

The above is for gamplay only and to be quite honest I can live with the way it is because I usually time my turns and tactics pretty well.

What do you think?.

Is it just a fact that some players are just not turning their boats good enough when DC run commences? or do you think DC could do with a larger spacing for gameplay reason and to prolong attacks.

If it could be done, I would consider calling a vote on the issue.

Maybe its just a case that people need to play with more attention.

All in all I think we are gaining considerable ground on the overall issue.

Well done all.

p.s. I have took the day of work so am working on damage settings and crew management all day. I am just reinstalling the game and trying new beta settings out from fresh install.

[Jungman]

Here is a way to limit crew effeiciency. I had to crawl through that, there is no reason to it. Make these changes to Basic.cfg. now qualification is very important, and the difernce in rank of a green recruit and chief petty officer makes much more differrence.

Basic.cfg ; Damage Control

;NumberOfCrew5=10
;Interval1_5=5.1
;Interval2_5=6.5
;Interval3_5=13.7

NumberOfCrew5=10
Interval1_5=21
Interval2_5=26
Interval3_5=53

I multiply by four. Damage control can hold 10 people plus Officer. Now these guys will not even pick up a wrench hardly. Even at 1945 full rank, full rested, officer with repair skill it takes 10 seaman to get the bar even close to half. No officer with repair skill, it is about 1/4. And if tired, forget it; around zero.

So adjust to where you want it.

Just now seen your post. Yes this above affects only the Damage Control comparment. They all can be individually adjusted.

I can change DD drop interval I am sure, it is in the DC.sim file. But I must ask, are you using my SonarDC Mod? It nerfs the DD blind by 200 meters or 150m in straight ahead and in angle. Plus the DC are set for 20m or 15m blast depending on what versiion you have.

Another one to hex out is a combo me and oRGy had/making. Set the active sonar to limitation from crap -100m depth to -300m deep for late war best active sonar. Even nerf the Hydrophones to -200m to -300m just to give you a chance to escape and break the lock.

Is it just a fact that some players are just not turning their boats good enough when DC run commences? or do you think DC could do with a larger spacing for gameplay reason and to prolong attacks.

People need to learn how to evade. I was killed alot starting out, but now I hardly ever get hit. I would not want to change DC drop rate. Nerf the active sonar as in IuB depth also would be my way out of it by going deep.

Well, I been awake for the last 12 hours, I must be getting some sleep. 4:00 am here. Play with those Damage Control values to get a decent play. A person can also change how much qualification plays into it too.

[gouldjg]

Thanks Jungman

You get a good nights sleep.

Its morning here lol.

I always thought RUB already included you DC files. I will have to look into these at some point later today.

If there is something already out that effect the DD runs i.e. your work. I think I will go with that option.

Yep forget the spacing. At the end of the day we all have to learn how to evade.

I never usually go into emergency reverse etc and I know many captains have various reverse tactics as well as just waiting for last few seconds and turning out at certain angles.

I like the idea of the 200m lose contact mod for DD.

Anyway back onto the issue

I will spend some time today putting all changes into mod to see if this damage can be improved.

If you then have the power, which I am sure you do, we could look at qualifications and workrates for other compartments at a later date.


As it stands now I have already tweaked qualification effects a little but we can discuss this more later on in the development.

Speak later

[Jungman]

Yes, I am dying because of pressure... For a third test, I sank the HMS Coouragous and tried really really hard to get away. I went down to 200m and the DD's still found me with no trouble at all. It started raining DC's and one lucky shot brought me down to 64%. After that, it was an agonizing crush to death.

that is going to be fixed soon. The DD can see you with active sonar equally at 50m depth or at 300m depth (well almost). The model is a joke. Actually it is half the max distance but no bore you with math.

oRGy had an idea and I agree, change the depth of the active sonar units used by the different DD and the time of year in war so you can go deep to escape, and they have a much harder time detecting you. Only a late war DD using a good active sonar should rain death upon you down to 300 metes deep. You will pay attention to what DD is the escort before you try something nasty.

It will also give you a chance for a surprise convoy attack by laying low deep in ocean then rise and and blow them to hell -then run fast away. :|\

Coming soon. A new version of SonarDC with help from oRGy. I think you will really be pleased. It will give you a decent reason to go deep and chance kiling yourself in order to break the death lock upon your sub and sneak away. Good luck.

[gouldjg]

Jungman

Some feedback that may be of interest to you with regards to the menu changes.

I have been testing the menu file you posted.

I think it causes crashes on exiting the game for me.

I have RUB 1.44 installed

Did hours of problem tracking as I first thought i might of messed with something I should not have, It seems to comes down to this file. The mission takes longer to load and the progress bar sometimes gets stuck at the bottom end for a while.

I am going to install a vanilla game without RUB and test again.

If no crashes occur we must be having a RUB problem when I place this file in.

Will report back in 30 min even though I know you are asleep.

[gouldjg]

Just to confirm

There is definetly a compatibility problem when using this menu file.

Its a shame really.

Any Ideas?

I am going to try that interval setting as you suggested because if we can control crew efficiency from there, then the penalty issues do not need to be as severe anymore.

At the end of the day all we want is a good management that goes hand in hand with a good damage model.

To get better damage its all about reducing the effect of the crew without interfering with the running of other compartments.

More tests are needed and I have a few ideas.


I am actually hoping that your menu works on your system and its just a matter of the changes being made for each mod version. But thats a matter for you to decide as your the only one who can do those different versions.

If your DC changes go to plan things again will get better also.

Will report later

I have got the six quick post stations disabled with no crashes now as I am just changing the lines myself. Hopefully the other six compartments will not bring back the crash.

I have a funny feeling this could be solved but am not banking on it just yet.

I also have a funny feeling this is why some people seem to have problems in the cre management after loading 2 mods together that each use menu ini file.

[Marhkimov]

Yes, if we could get the repair compartment to not be so draining on the men while still reducing overall repair effectiveness, that would be good.


-MAybe jungman's menu file is crashing on you because jungman did not edit from a stock menu file. It could be conflicting with a mod that either you or he have installed. A few mods that use the menu .ini file are timetraveller's slideout mod, oRGy's IUB mod, and RUb... To fix a crash, you might have to see whether those mods are included in the menu file or not.