I'm reading the Bible--and it's awesome

[Lord Justice]

Originally Posted by frenema

But if you look at it the other way, if Hitler didn't build U-boats at all and spent all that material/fuel on more Panzers, Germany would have defeated Soviet Union and cold war would have ensued between them and US/UK.

Oh come come man, if there had been no Eastern Front, no A bomb, H, bomb, if waited to original plan 1942, waffle waffle, Sir, a good swig of brandy and sound verbal volley to a world map will perhaps suffice for now, yes? very well good day.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

I'm theoretically saying, once Germany defeated Britain, they'd just pound the U.S. into dust.

How do you figure? Anybody can say anything, but that doesn't make it true. Please give evidence that could lead anyone to this conclusion.

[Highbury]

Originally Posted by oscar19681

But D-day would have been a whole other ballgame without england.

Well that's just... obvious. D-Day was launched from England.

That is like saying the fighting in Italy would have been different if the Italians were Allies....

[Leandros]

Originally Posted by Highbury

Well that's just... obvious. D-Day was launched from England.

That is like saying the fighting in Italy would have been different if the Italians were Allies....

I'd turn it around and say it wouldn't have been a ballgame at all with only England..........

[Leandros]

Originally Posted by brandtryan

Clay Blair. Hitler's U-Boat War

Freaking Volume I can support my bed off the floor. Well, that, and Blair's Silent Victory.

Deeply recommended reading for all U-Boat drivers, past and present!

He's getting a lot of criticism for his conclusions on the Battle of the Atlantic. I tend to agree on his conclusions. The queston is how the Germans could achieve as much as they did with their initially meagre resources.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

I'm theoretically saying, once Germany defeated Britain, they'd just pound the U.S. into dust.

How? They had no naval fleet to match the U.S. So a land based invasion is out. Besides, where would they get the troops? Assuming they were still tied up in the East, they just did not have the divisions to fight a country the size of the U.S. and Russia at the same time. And even if they did, they didn't have the transport space to get them across the Atlantic. They had no airpower with the range to reach the U.S. The U-boats couldn't have done it alone - the U.S. had the ability to move materials overland and did not have to rely as much on sea lanes as the Brits did.

The U.S. would have either had to invade through Africa instead of using England as a jumping off point, or, they would have sued for peace. Considering the amount of planning, preparation and everything else that went into planning an invasion just across the English Channel, I think planning one across the entire Atlantic Ocean would have been logistically impossible at that point.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Leandros

He's getting a lot of criticism for his conclusions on the Battle of the Atlantic. I tend to agree on his conclusions. The queston is how the Germans could achieve as much as they did with their initially meagre resources.

I also agree with Blair. He is criticized because he challenged the common wisdom spread by Donitz in his memoirs and others that the U-boats came close to knocking England out of the war. However, it is hard to disagree with him, given his thorough research, including German archives. He is correct that the germans, given the meager resources given to the U-boat war, never became a serious threat.

This thread actually made me dust off my copy. I was re-reading about fall 41 to see if I could find anything more about fuel shortages, but did not find anything. I did find an interesting example which summarizes the German dilemna. In september 41, U-Boats savaged two convoys and sank thirty ships. In the same month, 1,000 ships sailed and 970, including 18 out of 20 convoys made it through unscathed.

re-reading Blair is also really putting me in the mood to go back to the Atlantic...