Shame on these people

[Tchocky]

I must have. (obligatory smiley )

So, snipers?

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by waste gate

For the record I didn't use the word assasination that is P-funk's word. My point was that anyone who puts on a mask and assaults the legitimate authority should be dropped to send the message that it will not be tolorated.

Continue to coddle the miscreants and you will continue to see the behavior because there is no consequence for the behavior. These people will be released from jail w/in the month and empowered to do the same thing in the future.

This British followed this advice at the Boston Massacre, and it didn't get them very far.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I must have. (obligatory smiley )

So, snipers?

In an urban enviroment snipers would be placed on roofs and other higher 'ground'.
From those angles non-violent demonstrators would be less likely to be struck unintentionally. The 'bad guys' were out in the open and could be easily taken by well trained forces. If you play pool/billiards you know it is all about the angles. The third demention is very important.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

The third demention is very important.

How apt.

Any answers to my questions above? About the snipers.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

How apt.

Any answers to my questions above? About the snipers.

I'm sure even Germany has trained snipers and if you have the higher ground its all about angles and people attacking your fellow officers.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by waste gate

In an urban enviroment snipers would be placed on roofs and other higher 'ground'.
From those angles non-violent demonstrators would be less likely to be struck unintentionally. The 'bad guys' were out in the open and could be easily taken by well trained forces. If you play pool/billiards you know it is all about the angles. The third demention is very important.

Yea I'm sure that those guys would show real restraint. Its bad enough what riot police do once the show begins with their big sticks. More aggressive police tactics never work. Police are there to hold back the tide of violence, not eliminate it through killing.

Lets get some perspective here. Crazy Anarchists with sticks and rocks wearing bandanas throwing stuff at poorly led, outnumbered police. That was the scene before. Now there are 13 000 police.

If the coppers didn't plan effectively then that doesn't give them cause to start shooting people from the third dimension. Now that they have 13 000 as Skybird suggest then they don't really have any reason to get so draconian with 2000 crazies. Killing them as a demonstration of consequence is just using execution as a deterrant except without a trial.

[Skybird]

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/fragen-de...07/3310131.asp

I loosly translate only parts:

"Fruits and other soft objects were used that were filled/peppered with razorblades and small cut-blades (from craftsman-kits). On impact these supersharp blades cut open uniforms of hit officers... "

Imagine what such sick things would cause on a human body that is not protected by the body-armour of riot police, or when hitting riot police at unprotected body areas during a rumble.

"Bigger rocks were fired by using Deuserbänder (rubber-bands, several cm wide and 1-2 meter long that physiotherapist Deuser first has introduced to physiological rehabilitation and power training of the German national football team). with these rubber bands, rocks the size of children's heads had been fired at the police (like huge catapults)... We are convinced that the Chaoten (the thugs) have bunkered their material (in ammonitions and weapon) since weeks, amongst this even smoke grenades and yellow smoke from Eastern Europe."

Rocks the size of heads, fired by catapults. The article also says that the onslaught was so brutal and aggressive that the police was not able to keep them at minimum distance, needing to accept close infight - this is the reason why the number of wounded officers is so high.

In another article, a spokesman of the police union today said he could imagine that during a repetion of such brutal events, orders for sharp shooting eventually could be - and should be - given.

I myself stand by my argument of using sharp ammuntion to shoot at their legs. If that means hitting fourthousand legs, so be it. Only two thing sare important in this: that they are prevented from continuin to injure or kill police, and that they canot run away and escape being brought to court and serve a penalty for intended murder.

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Yea I'm sure that those guys would show real restraint. Its bad enough what riot police do once the show begins with their big sticks. More aggressive police tactics never work. Police are there to hold back the tide of violence, not eliminate it through killing.

Lets get some perspective here. Crazy Anarchists with sticks and rocks wearing bandanas throwing stuff at poorly led, outnumbered police. That was the scene before. Now there are 13 000 police.

If the coppers didn't plan effectively then that doesn't give them cause to start shooting people from the third dimension. Now that they have 13 000 as Skybird suggest then they don't really have any reason to get so draconian with 2000 crazies. Killing them as a demonstration of consequence is just using execution as a deterrant except without a trial.

They wore maskes and they were assaulting the legitimate authority, thumbing their noses at German law, and using deadly physical force. I didn't ever say to do anything more than drop a few. That would do the trick. They are cowards who hide behind peaceful people , using them as human shields, the rest of the 2,000 will run crying to momma.


Those that die can be comforted by the fact that they died for a cause.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

What job? Shooting civilians who could be arrested and tried?

This idea of shooting violent protesters would make the violence.......wait for it.....worse. Remember Kent State?

This is what I was looking for a response to.

Originally Posted by Skybird

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/fragen-de...07/3310131.asp

I loosly translate only parts:

"Fruits and other soft objects were used that were filled/peppered with razorblades and small cut-blades (from craftsman-kits). On impact these supersharp blades cut open uniforms of hit officers... "

Imagine what such sick things would cause on a human body that is not protected by the body-armour of riot police, or when hitting riot police at unprotected body areas during a rumble.

"Bigger rocks were fired by using Deuserbänder (rubber-bands, several cm wide and 1-2 meter long that physiotherapist Deuser first has introduced to physiological rehabilitation and power training of the German national football team). with these rubber bands, rocks the size of children's heads had been fired at the police (like huge catapults)... We are convinced that the Chaoten (the thugs) have bunkered their material (in ammonitions and weapon) since weeks, amongst this even smoke grenades and yellow smoke from Eastern Europe."

Rocks the size of heads, fired by catapults. The article also says that the onslaught was so brutal and aggressive that the police was not able to keep them at minimum distance, needing to accept close infight - this is the reason why the number of wounded officers is so high.

In another article, a spokesman of the police union today said he could imagine that during a repetion of such brutal events, orders for sharp shooting eventually could be - and should be - given.

I myself stand by my argument of using sharp ammuntion to shoot at their legs. If that means hitting fourthousand legs, so be it. Only two thing sare important in this: that they are prevented from continuin to injure or kill police, and that they canot run away and escape being brought to court and serve a penalty for intended murder.

Doesn't look like skybird and I are very far off in opinion on this one, save knowing that shooting at legs would be more dangerous for non-combatants than center of mass.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

This is what I was looking for a response to.

Quite a bit of difference here Tchocky. The folks at Kent State were not wearing masks and assaulting the police or National Guard. Don't equate the Kent State tragedy with what we saw in Rostock. It isn't the same thing.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Quite a bit of difference here Tchocky. The folks at Kent State were not wearing masks and assaulting the police or National Guard. Don't equate the Kent State tragedy with what we saw in Rostock. It isn't the same thing.

It shows how shooting civilians without due process only turns public opinion against the police.

Again, why not arrest these people instead of shooting them? Does the legal process mean nothing?

[Onkel Neal]

I'm inclined to post my thoughts occasionally and then let it go. As for my statement, I don't have a lot of patience for criminals, especially those who abuse our freedoms, such as the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government. Most of these punks wouldn't be so tough and daring except they know the police will show some restraint.

Yeah, if you go to work, you're doing your job, and some guy knocks your teeth out with a paving stone, how would you react? Police do not deserve to be treated any differently than you and me. I'm all for arresting them, but only if 20-year sentences are the result.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

It shows how shooting civilians without due process only turns public opinion against the police.

Again, why not arrest these people instead of shooting them? Does the legal process mean nothing?

Have a look at skybird's post. He and I are not in disagreement except for where the target is located. The difference has more to do with firearm knowledge than the appropriate action.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Have a look at skybirds post. He and I are not in disagreement except for where the target is located.

yes, and you are advocating shooting people, with death as a likely outcome.
I don't especially care what you are in disagreement about, that's between yourself and Sky.

Why not arrest them?

Why should the police be allowed fire on, and kill, protesters when it is possible to arrest them?