Damage control explained heavy pics

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Snowman999

Same thing happened to me. Both electric motors (I refuse to call them engines) were damaged, one about 40% the other about 60%. Fixed them both completely. Also had Aft-TR flooding to 25% after bulkhead damage; fixed and dewatered. Went to PD, immediately, like in five seconds, began to sink stern first. Went to flank and would not answer bells on electric motors. External view showed neither prop turning. Sank to implosion.

We have to remember that the sub has hit points like the merchants. The sub hit points are diminished with damage. I'm not saying it is the best system to demonstrate damage and effects but it is all we have at the moment.

You are correct, the electric motors are just that, motors.

[AVGWarhawk]

We have to look at damage like this: A direct hit on a submarine and it is pretty much finished. We can not believe the sub is as good as new after repairs. Hence refit if you can make port.

[fullmetaledges]

the problem isn't that the motors are damaged the problem is that the damage screen does not tell me this.

[-Pv-]

"I moved all my best men into the DC crew and the green bar was near half way up. I had the torpedo tube clicked "darker red" for priority and I had the DC working Green light in toolbar, but after 6hrs it was still showing 45min repair time."

I'm seeing some indication the assigned DC crew boosts repair, but dedicated ACTIVE compartment crew need to be in the damaged compartment for repairs to happen there. Compartments and the equipment located there emptied of crew don't appear to get repaired. This has a bearing on injured crew in a compartment also. I suspect a heavily damaged compartment is most efficiently repaired when healthy crew are ACTIVE in the compartment and DC has priority there. I'm wanting to test this theory more. As a part of this test, I also want to see if having battle stations engaged (so all the crew are activated) helps.
-Pv-

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by -Pv-

"I moved all my best men into the DC crew and the green bar was near half way up. I had the torpedo tube clicked "darker red" for priority and I had the DC working Green light in toolbar, but after 6hrs it was still showing 45min repair time."

I'm seeing some indication the assigned DC crew boosts repair, but dedicated ACTIVE compartment crew need to be in the damaged compartment for repairs to happen there. Compartments and the equipment located there emptied of crew don't appear to get repaired. This has a bearing on injured crew in a compartment also. I suspect a heavily damaged compartment is most efficiently repaired when healthy crew are ACTIVE in the compartment and DC has priority there. I'm wanting to test this theory more. As a part of this test, I also want to see if having battle stations engaged (so all the crew are activated) helps.
-Pv-

That is all we can do is test theories at this point because the manual has not have theories at all

Tonight I sunk a carrier at 16000 tons and a destroyer. I got an ash can on my head...bye bye sub No repairing a 600lb ash can directly on my deck

[fullmetaledges]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

We have to remember that the sub has hit points like the merchants. The sub hit points are diminished with damage. I'm not saying it is the best system to demonstrate damage and effects but it is all we have at the moment.

You are correct, the electric motors are just that, motors.

when you repair does it increse the hitpoints again? I understand not to 100% but does it go up at all? That wouldn't explain things that were repaired not working still, if it's destroyed thats fine but tell me, don't display a blank damage screen if there are things that are destroyed

[Tarl]

Interesting thread, a good read. I had a similiar situation. was enrt back to Pearl (on the surface) half way to Midway from the Japanese coast.....two (2) bombers found me, took major damage to the front of the sub, forward torpedo room flooded....put the repair crew to work....my bow was awash and the stern was practically sticking out of the water....the props were almost not touching the water....still moving at about 10kts.

As time went on and repairs were completed (and I was notified in the message window) things started to settle down, the bow started to come back to a more normal attitude and the stern sank back into the water...however, the bow was still low.

Speed now up to 14kts, another aircraft spotted me, things looked repaired...decided to try to dive to periscope depth, mistake......the sub started to sink beneath the waves, and started to nose dive straight down....emergency surface....no GO. I'm headed to the bottom.

a sobering experience.

[SteamWake]

Heres a new one.

Got bombed again and flooded the foward torpedo room.

Again repaired the bulkhead and pumps but again the water would not leave the boat.

The flooding was so bad it lifted the stern out of the water to the point where the screws were out of the water. Rear up in the air at about a 30 degree angle.

Curiously enough we could still make some headway a couple of knots but another bomber came and finished the job. We had no guns and dident dare dive. They payed no attention to our waving a surrender flag.

[Snowman999]

Yes, the bulkhead is internal and makes up the structual integrity of the submarine.

Adds to it, yes. The pressure hull is far stronger; it's a cylinder for a reason.

Once that integrity is compromised, the strength it once had is now gone.

It's hard to imagine how a bulkhead could be compromised to the point that the pressure hull fails without the PH being breeched. That is an easy visual check by th ecrew, either internally or externally. The amount of water needed to flood the after-TR in five seconds is tons per second . . .

We see that the developers did not include hull damage, only bulkhead. Therefore, we have to assume this bulkhead damage encompesses the hull as well.

OK, fine. All I'm saying is TELL me what it is, even an estimate. Submarine officers all usually had Academy engineering degrees. They can asses damage.

We can only assume this. Yes, the Chief Engineer would report to the Skipper his feelings on diving is possible but again this is his professional estimation.

No, he'd report that the TR was leaking like a seive, which it would be after pressure hull penetration and emergency DC. Subs don't carry welding rigs, staging, etc. Patches were of the canvas-and-sh0oring variety. A breeched pressure hull would make the boat un-divable short of drydocking. But we aren't told that. We're given "repairs completed" and no further clues.

Not really knowing for sure. With that said, we do not get the Chief Engineer. We only get ourselves. We have to make the best guess on it. If you look back at my screenshots my stern is completely filled with water. Does not seem to pumping out either. I can make by best guess that the sub is already out of trim and a dive is doom...and it was.

In my case there was no external damage showing. My TR flooded (by the blue bar) to a max of 25%. It was dry (no blue) when I dived. I had been told repairs were completed. Yet I flooded and sank in five seconds. This isn't possible to defend IMO as a design decision. I don't think it's a design decision.

That also doesn't explain why my electric motors, also damaged and reported repaired, failed on the dive and would not run at any speed.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by fullmetaledges

when you repair does it increse the hitpoints again? I understand not to 100% but does it go up at all? That wouldn't explain things that were repaired not working still, if it's destroyed thats fine but tell me, don't display a blank damage screen if there are things that are destroyed

No I do not believe you get the hit points back for repairs. This is something the modders have to look into. I'm no good at that.

[Snowman999]

Originally Posted by fullmetaledges

the problem isn't that the motors are damaged the problem is that the damage screen does not tell me this.

Bingo.

And that a "refit" isn't a refit--it's fuel and wepaons. A refit ends when the boat can dive to test depth. There's a test dive at the sea trial phase of any refit. I sank becuase my "refit" at Midway fixed nothing.

[AVGWarhawk]

We can only assume this. Yes, the Chief Engineer would report to the Skipper his feelings on diving is possible but again this is his professional estimation.

No, he'd report that the TR was leaking like a seive, which it would be after pressure hull penetration and emergency DC. Subs don't carry welding rigs, staging, etc. Patches were of the canvas-and-sh0oring variety. A breeched pressure hull would make the boat un-divable short of drydocking. But we aren't told that. We're given "repairs completed" and no further clues.

You answered everyone misunderstanding of damage, repairing damage and how good the repair is. No welding rigs, yes, they could arch weld with the batteries as the energy source but only limitedly. Yes a breeched hull spells doom for a dive. What do you mean you are not told that????? If there is flooding.....then you have been told. Come on, if your "bulkhead/hull" is almost completely red and hours to repair.....your screwed! No need to tell you this. Ok, the red bar is clear, they said repairs complete....did not say it is 100% head on down to 250 feet and see how see goes. You should no how it is going to go.....not well I can assure you.

Sorry fellas, I see it as a best guess....same as the engineer would tell you. If I see massive damage and hours to repair.....diving is not going to be my first choice.....run or fight it out. A percent meter in my view is bad. The reason I say this because it was a guess after damage was repaired how it would perform or last.....never a number involved.

[BlackSpot]

Good reply Hawk! The subs must have had very limited tools and spares to repair damage. I see repaired damage as a patch until you can get into port, especially when refering to hull integrity as it would be impossible to repair this externally.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by BlackSpot

Good reply Hawk! The subs must have had very limited tools and spares to repair damage. I see repaired damage as a patch until you can get into port, especially when refering to hull integrity.

Exactly! But the argument is we are not told how bad. Hmmm....big red line, hours to repair.....this looks like I'm being told the game is over. You don't have to hit me over the head.

As far as the electric motors damaged and repaired but not working, I have to get into this situation before I can comment on it.

Anyway, the best way to repair your sub???????? Don't get damaged!!!!! Dive from planes, go deep to avoid DC!!!

[Snowman999]

Exactly! But the argument is we are not told how bad. Hmmm....big red line, hours to repair.....this looks like I'm being told the game is over. You don't have to hit me over the head.

We probably need to agree to disagree on this one. I think the game is evasive if it's designed as you say, especialy if it's aimed at the prototypical "casual gamer". That guy is gonna be pissed if he's told it's repaired yet he can't even go to PD for five seconds. Given the color-bar system in the DC screen it would be trivial to have a "repaired" component show a red bar or similar to give the player risk feedback. You simply shouldn't have to guess at game-ending damage based on visualk damage that may or may not show depending on your graphics selections. As I said, there was no flooding reported after repairs on the DC screen.

As far as the electric motors damaged and repaired but not working, I have to get into this situation before I can comment on it.

This is the issue that makes me think the bulkhead/PH damage issue is not coded to design either. A "repaired" motor that will not answer bells is not guesswork. No Engineer is going to report to the CO that main propulsion is repaired without testing it. Yet the DC scren again offers no feedback except an abscense of any red in the component box.

Aside--did you work at Mare Island? They built my boat in the early 60s.