Dipping bullets in pork to demoralize terrorists.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

First and most important: for me there is no point to continue discussion with a person that treats the Bible as source of facts. We don't share the same basis, so our discussion would be pointless. For me the Bible is a source of historical material that is sometimes reliable, sometimes not. As any other historical source. It's main concern is religion, and I'm not one to treat religious issues seriously. I'd rather call them superstitions.

So let's focus only on facts, skipping biblical quotes.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

"And all the kings of Arabia (Hebrew: "Malchei Arav") and all the kings of the allies who dwell in the desert."[/i]
- Jeremiah, 25:24

As you probably know, the phrase 'malchei araw' could be as well translated as "kings of Arabs" or even "Kings of the desert" (malchei erev) (as noone can be sure that the punctuation is right). And even if it's "Arabs", that's not any proof. Even Romans didn't know, how unbelievably big is the Pensinsula. They divided it on their maps into three parts (Petrea, Deserta, Felix) and have hardly managed to conquer a small part of it. The term 'Arabia' referred usually to only one part, the closest one, Petrea. No thinking man would like to invade the rest of the Pensinsula, where you could find only stones. So "malchei erev" can refer to kings of Petrea, some two or thre more kingdoms, skipping 90% of the rest of Pensisula. The very Pensisula, we should say.

There is an arguement among the Semitologists, what do " 'ivri", " 'aravi" mean in the Bible. As you know, there are numerous theories, none of them is sure.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Very misleading. Jew law is very specific what qualifies a person as being either Jewish by birth or by conversion. However, even at the exodus from Egypt the Torah mentions a "mixed multitude" (Hebrew: "eirev rav") of converts who joined the exodus. These were Egyptians and other "foreign nationals" who joined the Israelites, with the begrudging approval of Moses but not of G-d's, with disasterous consequences from that point in Jewish history onward.

The law you refer to comes from much, much later times (when the Talmud was written, about V-VI century Christian era). But it has no relation to the issue.

I refer to scientifical research, supported by linguistic, archeological, genetical and other research. You refer to the Bible text. No common base for us, sorry.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Not directly. At least I know that. The point of the signature is that we will not tolerate Islam's intended subjugation of us non-Islamic infidels. A clear and elementary message.

That's what I said - if you want the phrase to refer to Islam, use the proper word for it. "Astaslama" is not a proper word, "aslama" is, as the first has no relation to Islam (almost) at all. The founder of this action (I forgot her name) doesn't know Arabic and she messed up the words a bit. As you know, proper wording is extremely importnat in Jewish tradition, as if you know a proper name of a thing, you got a rule over it. Thus you don't call a melech (king) a mal'ach (angel) and reverse, as these are not proper words.

[TteFAboB]

Remember the infamous Treaty of Tordesillas

? Portugal and Spain are reduced to their homelands whereas Islam has expanded in every direction. Isn't this a fact? If Portugal and Spain had as a principle to conquer the world they'd have continued in that attempt wouldn't they? Of course, it's a lot less appealing to convince people to "convert" to Portuguese or Spanish citizenship, and that just causes alot of problems, than to convince someone to convert to Islam.

Islam is like any other religion or ideology. It evolves. Christianism had to go through its 2k years history full of blood, hatred and suffering before it became a (quite) peacefull religion. Even Bhuddism has blood on its hands. As almost every ideology does. But that doesn't mean that "Islam is evil". If it's so, that means any human ideology or thought is evil. Democracy is evil too, as thousands of people die now in Iraq, because Americans want to plant it on Iraqi ground with their military power.

You are saying that a religion is just like an ideology or that ISlam is an ideology? I think you've managed to insult almost every Muslim in the face of the Earth. Besides from Christians, Bhuddists, etc.

You've said you came here to fix bull**** with facts. You're just a bull****ter yourself with some culture but little understanding. Abd_von_Mumit.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

First and most important: for me there is no point to continue discussion with a person that treats the Bible as source of facts. We don't share the same basis, so our discussion would be pointless. For me the Bible is a source of historical material that is sometimes reliable, sometimes not. As any other historical source. It's main concern is religion, and I'm not one to treat religious issues seriously. I'd rather call them superstitions.

So let's focus only on facts, skipping biblical quotes.

I did not quote biblical verses for their religious significance but for their historical references to know peoples at the time. Your point is rhetorical.

As you probably know, the phrase 'malchei araw' could be as well translated as "kings of Arabs" or even "Kings of the desert" (malchei erev) (as noone can be sure that the punctuation is right). And even if it's "Arabs", that's not any proof.

First let's deal with your elementary grammar error in Hebrew. Had the verse wanted to state "kings of Arabs" or "kings of the Arabs", it would have stated the word "Arabs" in plural - "Aravim". But it doesn't, so your point is what exactly? That you can drum up inexactitudes to suite your fancy? I don't think so.

Even Romans didn't know, how unbelievably big is the Pensinsula. They divided it on their maps into three parts (Petrea, Deserta, Felix)

So they did or didn't know? Make up your mind.

Also, not conquering the entire penninsula does not mean that refugee migrations did not head beyond the bounds of these major conquering empires. In fact the opposite is most logical.

The term 'Arabia' referred usually to only one part, the closest one, Petrea. No thinking man would like to invade the rest of the Pensinsula, where you could find only stones. So "malchei erev" can refer to kings of Petrea, some two or thre more kingdoms, skipping 90% of the rest of Pensisula. The very Pensisula, we should say.

How does any of this prove your original point, which - to remind you - was: "In these times there was not such a name as "Arab""? And again, I mentioned that I have no disagreement that the penninsula consisted of multiple kingdoms. In fact, that's what the verses I quoted state.

There is an arguement among the Semitologists, what do " 'ivri", " 'aravi" mean in the Bible. As you know, there are numerous theories, none of them is sure.

I have no problem with either of them, with much less doubt than you.

The law you refer to comes from much, much later times (when the Talmud was written, about V-VI century Christian era).

No, it is Halacha le'Moshe mi'Sinai, handed down from G-d to Moses at Sinai as the Torah's Oral Law. I suggest you try taking your revisionism elsewhere.

But it has no relation to the issue.

I simply responded to you incorrect claims.

I refer to scientifical research, supported by linguistic, archeological, genetical and other research. You refer to the Bible text. No common base for us, sorry.

You haven't referenced anything scientific so far. State your sources but this is becoming tedious.

That's what I said - if you want the phrase to refer to Islam, use the proper word for it. "Astaslama" is not a proper word, "aslama" is, as the first has no relation to Islam (almost) at all. The founder of this action (I forgot her name)

Michelle Malkin.

doesn't know Arabic and she messed up the words a bit.

I still don't see how.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

First let's deal with your elementary grammar error in Hebrew. Had the verse wanted to state "kings of Arabs" or "kings of the Arabs", it would have stated the word "Arabs" in plural - "Aravim". But it doesn't, so your point is what exactly? That you can drum up inexactitudes to suite your fancy? I don't think so.

As you should know, the Bible very often refers to a 'nation' by using it's patronimical name, thus 'Aram' can mean Aram as a man name, a land OR the people that dwell in the land, lets call them the *Arams. Same exactly applies to Araw. Also remember that modern Hebrew has gone a long way from it's biblical form and you find forms that cannot be met in today's everyday language. This makes it a bit more complicated issue to be so asured about proper forms. Would you say nowadays "Vayyar Elohim ki tov"?

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

So they did or didn't know? Make up your mind.

Oh, come on and don't try to be offensive. That doesn't help a bit in any discussion. And having an area on ones map doesn't mean that the area is explored. Have you read any book of a Roman historian describing so called Arabia? You should, you'd be sure none of them was there, when he wrote about streets full of gold, precious stones etc. What Romans did know was existance of land somewhere there. Even the name they called it was unproper (Arabia Felix is a flawed translation of "Yaman", similar to flawed translation regarding Moses face 'with horns' ('bekarnaim', if I remember correctly)).

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Also, not conquering the entire penninsula does not mean that refugee migrations did not head beyond the bounds of these major conquering empires. In fact the opposite is most logical.

The really logical is to flee from the desert to find a fruitfull land to live, and that is what had been happening there for thousands of years. At least historians say that, you know. Tribes and peoples who lived in the central parts of the Peninsula constantly migrated to North (Syrian Desert, Mesopotamia) and West (Egypt), thus causing many problems and 'unrests'. You can find it it ANY book about ancient history. Have a look at Hitti's "History of the Arabs", Khourani's "History of the Arabs", Bright's "History of Israel", Moscati's "Culture of the Ancient Semitic nations" and so on, and so on.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

How does any of this prove your original point, which - to remind you - was: "In these times there was not such a name as "Arab""? And again, I mentioned that I have no disagreement that the penninsula consisted of multiple kingdoms. In fact, that's what the verses I quoted state.

So I should correct myself. The point is: in these times there was no such a name as 'Arab' to name all the nations/tribes/peoples/whatever that lived in the whole Arabic Peninsula. It's the dawn of Islam that brought the idea of 'one Arabic nation'. Earlier they used to call themselves with a different names, for example "beduins", and almost every city/kingdom/large tribe had it's own identity, feel of being different from the other, who surrounded it.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I have no problem with either of them, with much less doubt than you.

And, you know, I'd envy you the self-asureness in the matter, if not the fact, that I prefer to stick on knowledge that comes from scientifical research than on beliefs. In modern Hebrew the meaning is simple: 'Aravi' stands for 'Arab', 'Ivri' for 'Hebrew' and that's as simple, as it could ever be. But the origin of these words is not such simple, thus we have very many efforts to find it's original, true meaning in the Bible.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

No, it is Halacha le'Moshe mi'Sinai, handed down from G-d to Moses at Sinai as the Torah's Oral Law. I suggest you try taking your revisionism elsewhere.

As I stated above, I'll stick on the facts. The fact is that Talmud was written some one and a half thousands years ago, and the issues we try to discuss happened like four thousands years ago. We have no further evidence of existance of these laws before, not mentioning the existance of Moses etc. Thus for me Talmud cannot be any source of information about ethnical origin of the Jews. It's not the matter of revisionism, it's a matter of being religious and believing in what Bible says, and being a sceptic. I'm the latter one, and as I said there is not a base we could share in this discussion.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

You haven't referenced anything scientific so far. State your sources but this is becoming tedious.

I've named a few books above.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I still don't see how.

If you are ok with the phrase as it is, enjoy it! Not my problem, really. It's always good to have a smile everytime I spot it in someone's sig!

[robbo180265]

I'd give it up(in fact I have) this isn't a reasonable discussion any more,hasn't been for quite a while now

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

I'd give it up(in fact I have) this isn't a reasonable discussion any more,hasn't been for quite a while now

The usual cop-out. Toodaloo.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Anyone with knowledge in Islam know if this will have any effect,
if seen by a terrorist?:hmm: Hope so

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6d3b99daae

thats disgusting and embarassing.

[robbo180265]

Sticks and stones........

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

? Portugal and Spain are reduced to their homelands whereas Islam has expanded in every direction. Isn't this a fact? If Portugal and Spain had as a principle to conquer the world they'd have continued in that attempt wouldn't they? Of course, it's a lot less appealing to convince people to "convert" to Portuguese or Spanish citizenship, and that just causes alot of problems, than to convince someone to convert to Islam.

"The treaty effectively countered the bulls of Alexander VI and was sanctioned by Pope Julius II in a new bull of 1506." Without the pope's sanction it would be just a treaty between two coutries. WITH that sanction it looks different, isn't it? Throughout the European history in these times it was said and believed that "God gave these lands by pope's mouth to Christian kings of Portugal and Spain". THAT was, what I meant.

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

You are saying that a religion is just like an ideology or that ISlam is an ideology? I think you've managed to insult almost every Muslim in the face of the Earth. Besides from Christians, Bhuddists, etc.

Yes, I'm saying any religion is an ideology. "Religion" is (for me) a word to name the kind of ideology that says the source of law, order, good and evil etc. is god. Other ideologies refer to different sources of these values. One believes in god, other in nature and the third in mankind or anything else. If that is offensive or insulting, stating that there is god should be insulting too to those who don't share this belief. But it's not. What was the point? Should I refrain from sayiong I don't believe in God not to insult anyone? Do we want to go so far?

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

You've said you came here to fix bull**** with facts. You're just a bull****ter yourself with some culture but little understanding. Abd_von_Mumit.

Oh... and that would be offensive, if I took it personally. I have never called anyone a bull***ter on these nor other forums. I strongly believe any discussion should focus on the topic that matters, to be ad rem, not ad personam. And again we don't share the same beliefs. And again I don't find this insulting...


Hmm... This discussion went far from the original topic. That's also partially my fault. From the pork to the Bible and linguistic issues... I'll try not to continue this. But, you know, at least my original post was on topic (I hope) and I tried to bring some fresh look on discussed issues and correct some thesis posted above, regarding Islam. Sorry to the bored ones.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

If you are ok with the phrase as it is, enjoy it! Not my problem, really. It's always good to have a smile everytime I spot it in someone's sig!

Not fair. I've had a laugh every time I have seen it over the months that people have been featuring it in their sig. Now the secret is out. Oh well. It is still amusing to see that people post a sig that they have no idea what it actually says. I guess it kind of sums up the complete ignorance and lack of understanding of the subject matter. Happy days.

Excellent series of posts Abd_von_Mumit.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

You've said you came here to fix bull**** with facts. You're just a bull****ter yourself with some culture but little understanding. Abd_von_Mumit.

Direct personal attack. How sad.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

As you should know, the Bible very often refers to a 'nation' by using it's patronimical name, thus 'Aram' can mean Aram as a man name, a land OR the people that dwell in the land, lets call them the *Arams. Same exactly applies to Araw. Also remember that modern Hebrew has gone a long way from it's biblical form and you find forms that cannot be met in today's everyday language. This makes it a bit more complicated issue to be so asured about proper forms. Would you say nowadays "Vayyar Elohim ki tov"?

To answer your last question, it is perfectly valid and accurate in modern Hebrew, no less.

I failed to understand the relevance in this case of your point with patronomical names.

Oh, come on and don't try to be offensive. That doesn't help a bit in any discussion. And having an area on ones map doesn't mean that the area is explored.

But I never said it was.

Have you read any book of a Roman historian describing so called Arabia? You should, you'd be sure none of them was there, when he wrote about streets full of gold, precious stones etc. What Romans did know was existance of land somewhere there. Even the name they called it was unproper (Arabia Felix is a flawed translation of "Yaman", similar to flawed translation regarding Moses face 'with horns' ('bekarnaim', if I remember correctly)).

The verse states "ki Karan panav" - meaning because his face radiated. Otherwise, the Roman history is nice but why are we going off on this tangent?

So I should correct myself. The point is: in these times there was no such a name as 'Arab' to name all the nations/tribes/peoples/whatever that lived in the whole Arabic Peninsula.

Yet there it is staring at you in the verses I mentioned.

It's the dawn of Islam that brought the idea of 'one Arabic nation'.

Yes but it's the Islamic claim that the Arabs are the descendents of Yishmael that we're discussing and my claim that this is simply non-factual, which you actually agreed with.

Earlier they used to call themselves with a different names, for example "beduins", and almost every city/kingdom/large tribe had it's own identity, feel of being different from the other, who surrounded it.

Tangents. Tangents.

And, you know, I'd envy you the self-asureness in the matter, if not the fact, that I prefer to stick on knowledge that comes from scientifical research than on beliefs. In modern Hebrew the meaning is simple: 'Aravi' stands for 'Arab', 'Ivri' for 'Hebrew' and that's as simple, as it could ever be.

All you did was (re)state the English transliterized sounds of these 2 Hebrew words. So?

But the origin of these words is not such simple, thus we have very many efforts to find it's original, true meaning in the Bible.

"Eiver ha'Nahar" for "Ivri". "Erev" and "Ma'arav" for "Arav".

Ho hum.

As I stated above, I'll stick on the facts. The fact is that Talmud was written some one and a half thousands years ago, and the issues we try to discuss happened like four thousands years ago.

While this is when the Talmud was compiled, it was all compiled from oral sources, Just as the Mishnah was a few 100 years prior. Try again.

We have no further evidence of existance of these laws before, not mentioning the existance of Moses etc. Thus for me Talmud cannot be any source of information about ethnical origin of the Jews.

Whoopie for you.

It's not the matter of revisionism, it's a matter of being religious and believing in what Bible says, and being a sceptic. I'm the latter one, and as I said there is not a base we could share in this discussion.

So be it.

Laila tov.

[TteFAboB]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

Direct personal attack. How sad.

Why don't you point his personal attack on Skybird? Or on anybody else? He has said that he found many pig****terss in here. Who are they?

But I''ve read whole the thread and found many bull**ts (pig**ts?) here

Have you missed this Konovalov? Or is your blindness voluntary, ideological/religious?

Why only me Konovalov?

Oh... and that would be offensive, if I took it personally. I have never called anyone a bull***ter on these nor other forums. I strongly believe any discussion should focus on the topic that matters, to be ad rem, not ad personam. And again we don't share the same beliefs. And again I don't find this insulting...

As I've shown, you have said that this whole thread has many bull****s and pig****ters. Care to name and point them out? One who makes a bull**** is a bull****ter or is he not? You also called someone pig****ter. So you have thrown two offenses, that somebody made bull**** wich makes the author a bull****ter and pig****ter proper.

I will show that there is nothing personal in my response.

"The treaty effectively countered the bulls of Alexander VI and was sanctioned by Pope Julius II in a new bull of 1506." Without the pope's sanction it would be just a treaty between two coutries. WITH that sanction it looks different, isn't it? Throughout the European history in these times it was said and believed that "God gave these lands by pope's mouth to Christian kings of Portugal and Spain". THAT was, what I meant.

The Catholic Church replaced the vacuum created by the fall of the Roman Empire. With the Roman authority gone, treaties and contracts had no value at all. One Feudal people may consider something valid that the other one does not. To solve this issue Europeans relied on the Church as that was a common denominator to all and the Church gradually assumed the role. It was not by principle but by necessity.

If you are sincere in your intentions you know that Islam is based on the attempt to create a sacred state, by principle, and that's why a Muslim when converting has to sign a paper at the Mosque. A Christian can convert by himself, alone, hidden, inside a hostile enviroment. A Muslim must take part in the public life and be registered in the Islamic notary's public. It is not only a spiritual convertion, but a material declaration.

Thus, you are counter-productive by giving importance to this point. If the importance lies in juridical authorization from the religious authority, then every Muslim registered at a Mosque has acted in the name of Allah and in the name of Islam.

Yes, I'm saying any religion is an ideology. "Religion" is (for me) a word to name the kind of ideology that says the source of law, order, good and evil etc. is god. Other ideologies refer to different sources of these values. One believes in god, other in nature and the third in mankind or anything else. If that is offensive or insulting, stating that there is god should be insulting too to those who don't share this belief. But it's not. What was the point? Should I refrain from sayiong I don't believe in God not to insult anyone? Do we want to go so far?

Because you have devalued religion of revelation! You have de-divinized the content of religion. The source is the religion and not God. The source is natural and man-made and not divine. If you do not want to insult anybody then yes you would have to refrain from saying anything at all. Anything you say is a potential insult to somebody, somewhere. My point was to show that while you tell Skybird not to say "Muhammedans" because it is insulting, you, yourself, is also capable of insult. As I am and as anybody is because there is always someone willing to take an insult. You have denied Skybird the right to say "Muhammedans" but does not accept to be told the same. There is one standard for Skybird and another for you. Care to explain why you can say whatever you believe in, "(for me)", but others can't?

And here is the point. Your response to Skybird has brought confusion instead of ellucidating anything at all. And you have made every effort not to understand what Skybird meant.

Arabia had none superiority over anyone before Muhammad appeared. They were a big bunch of tribes fighting each other, hearding their camels, enjoying sunny weather, worshipping stones and mountains and writing unbelievably good poetry. In the Medieval 'Arabia', as you call it, id est the Arab-Muslim Empire (as historians call it nowadays), however they reached an extremely high level of civilisation (under Islamic rule, take a note): literature, social and healthcare, medicine, philosophy, mathematics and so on. Much higher than in Europe. There are uncountable reasons of fall down of the Empire, as usually. One of them is time (no empire lasts forever), devastating Mongol invasions, alienation of the rulers etc. etc. But all the best achievements of Arab-Muslim civilisation (BUT poetry) were gained only after Muhammad founded Islam.

Later you are going to say that all Empires fall. Could it be that Skybird is refering to a period of decline while you speak of rising and all there really is to it is a confusion to what is being refered as Islam? Islam considered as a religion, Islam considered as an ideology or Islam considered as anything a Muslim authority signs below.

Probably for the same reasons, as Moses, Jozue and Israelites (you can found the story in the Bible), who murdered whole cities and wiped quite a few civilisations. Religion is a strange thing, man, and takes one's reason away...

Take a note: Muhammad is NOT treated as a 'holy man' in Islam, it would be a heresy to call him that. Learn more about Islam, it's always good to know more than know less, even if Islam is your enemy.

Also refrain from using the term "Muhammedans", which is highly offensive to Muslims, as they don't worship Muhammad, but the God, Allah.

What have you done here? Relativized and generalized. This has made nothing clear. The particular problem of the thread that is being discussed: "Islam", is put aside next to "religion". Now we can't talk about Islam anymore, we have to talk about "religion". The problem being addressed and investigated dissapears and a whole new realm enters the room. No longer is Islam the issue, but the relations of "religion".

Islam is like any other religion or ideology. It evolves. Christianism had to go through its 2k years history full of blood, hatred and suffering before it became a (quite) peacefull religion. Even Bhuddism has blood on its hands. As almost every ideology does. But that doesn't mean that "Islam is evil". If it's so, that means any human ideology or thought is evil. Democracy is evil too, as thousands of people die now in Iraq, because Americans want to plant it on Iraqi ground with their military power.

Relativized, same as above. Islam is no longer being analyzed, but its relations to "religion" and other "religions".

This paragraph has not brought up any facts at all, by the contrary, it has eliminated all the facts I am going to list:

1. Who - who has blood in his hands, exactly who killed?
2. When - when did this take place? How many times? What's the timeline?
3. How - how did it happened?
4. Why - what are the motivation and justification or even excuses for it?
5. Then what - what are the consequences to the event, what did others said, what did successors say, what happened next.

None of these facts are present and the relativization with other religions only makes their importance nill and thus their dissapearance, solving absolutely nothing and creating more problems and more confusion.

Never forget, that there are hundreds of millions muslims in the world. And the so called Al-Qaida is run probably by no more than like 1k men, if that many. Whole the rest of the Muslims wish rather to stay home, live their own lives, earn money, grow children, watch TV and play computer games. The fundamentalists are dangerous regardless of their religion or ideology. Are they communists, Islamic, Jewish or Christian fanatics, nazis or greens...

Relativization. At best we can talk about potential danger, not factual. But again, there is no talk, if it's all equal and the same the facts don't really matter.

When you discuss the reasons of the actual terrorist issue, never forget King David Hotel in Jerusalem. NEVER forget that. Islam is not the very origin of the terror. The Palestine is. If not the Palestine problem, there would not be any Hamas, Hizbullah, PLO, IJ. And in the Palestinian conflict neither side is clean, nor the international community is. There is no black and white, there are only flavours of grey, my friends.

Relativization. When you say that there is no black or white but only flavours of grey don't you realize this is impossible? If there is only grey how can you tell it's grey, that it's a mixture of black and white? How can you tell it is darker or lighter? Only because there is black and white and only because you are capable of thinking on these terms.

When you relativize everything you take away all the importance of the facts themselves.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Why don't you point his personal attack on Skybird? Or on anybody else? He has said that he found many pig****terss in here. Who are they?
[...]
Have you missed this Konovalov? Or is your blindness voluntary, ideological/religious?

Why only me Konovalov?
[...]
As I've shown, you have said that this whole thread has many bull****s and pig****ters. Care to name and point them out? One who makes a bull**** is a bull****ter or is he not? You also called someone pig****ter. So you have thrown two offenses, that somebody made bull**** wich makes the author a bull****ter and pig****ter proper.

Man... "Pig**ts" cannot stand for "pig**ters"... There's a huge difference. Thus it doesn't refer to any person, but to a flawed info provided here (like blaming Islam for Persian slaughter in Jerusalem).

[TteFAboB]

Then I ask you, Konovalov and whoever else to ignore everything related to the pig****/bull**** as it also, thus, has no relation to any object of reality and apologize for the inconvenience and wasted time.