Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks kill hundreds'

[August]

Who cares what you give or not Skybird? Like I said your opinion is no more valuable than anyone elses and I say a lot less valuable than the medic in the picture above.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by August

Then the Chief and all the other people who have done this need to stand up for what they believe, not hide their identities. For all we know they could be just some schmucks dressed up in surplus uniforms.

Not everyone can be John Sheridan. We have already seen the reprisals against soldiers who don't follow the PC party line (like the one soldier who was reprimanded for owning a Rush Limbaugh book or the one with a NOBAMA bumper sticker).

[August]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Not everyone can be John Sheridan. We have already seen the reprisals against soldiers who don't follow the PC party line (like the one soldier who was reprimanded for owning a Rush Limbaugh book or the one with a NOBAMA bumper sticker).

Why were they reprimanded TLAM?

It's not for expressing a political viewpoint, it was because they expressed it while in uniform. When you are in uniform you represent the United States Military, you do NOT represent yourself. Nobody is telling them they can't have political opinions but they need to express them as private citizens.

The people who hide behind these placards are attempting to get around that. They want their voices to have the authority of a serviceman without taking any personal responsibility for what they say, assuming of course they are indeed real servicemen and not some political operative in a surplus uniform trying to cause trouble.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

And from Syrian patriot to US patriot

http://rt.com/usa/us-against-syria-strike-313/

From the same site, that article is also quite worth reading.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Alex

From the same site, that article is also quite worth reading.

If by "reading" you mean "filing under crackpot garbage".

[Wolferz]

Some of us here seem to be arguing Esprit de Corps or military bearing in layman's terms. You essentially sign away your life and liberty when you take the oath of military service. But, it still doesn't mean that you are required to follow blindly. You are required to obey "lawful orders" only.
If the first link in the chain of command is actually a criminal and a traitor who doesn't take his oath seriously, then your oath becomes a sham and it doesn't mean jack. Essentially making you an accessory to a crime. Nearly every military action since WWII has been an illegal one for the simple reason that congress did not formally declare war on those perceived enemies. Now, if they truly wish to legally punish the Syrian government, then Obama should seek a declaration of war from congress and proceed to stomp a mud hole in their asses and walk it dry. This limited engagement crap is just that. Crap. Crap that will only play into the hands of an enemy that has no sovereign borders, no recognized governmental structure and no morals against committing atrocities against innocent people.
I think Al Qaida may be the scum who committed the act against the Syrian population just to push us all into WW III. This will take the pressure off of them and leave them free to continue building their fanatical following.
It could also be Al CIAda pushing all the buttons in an effort to continue the shadow government fear campaign for the purpose of finalizing the takeover of everything.
I don't support resource wars for the rich and infamous. Neither should anybody else. It's clear to me that if you don't do business through the IMF, like Syria, Iran, North Korea, etc, etc then you're just a target.

[Oberon]

Sounds quite familiar to a conversation we had a while ago about moderators.

Uniforms and freedom of expression aside, I do agree with August about the chain of command and following it.
There are not many armies in the world, or history that I'm aware of, where subordinates are allowed to question their orders and refuse them if they do not agree with them. I imagine that such an army, in a protracted war, would disintegrate through disagreements amongst the ranks very quickly. It's about cohesion, rapid response and information overload, as a grunt you're told to go here and shoot this, you don't know the overall reason why you're doing it, although you might periodically get briefings on the wider effort, but the whole key is to just focus the soldier on what he has to do, not to overload him with information that might cause a crisis of decision at the wrong moment. That is one of the things that does worry me about future-tech communications systems, that there might become too much information for a soldier to process in a battlefield scenario, obviously such burden generally falls on the group leader and they are usually trained to absorb the right bits of information, to sort the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, but it's still a case of fixing something that isn't necessarily broken, although there are certainly some things that would be handy for the average grunt to have (corner-cameras for example) and I'm sure that such things are either in service or being put into service soon. Exo-skeletons will be interesting when that comes about...but I digress.
Back during the Crimean war there was a disastrous cavalry charge straight into a line of Russian cannons which resulted in a third of the cavalry brigade being wiped out. This became known as the legendary 'Charge of the Light Brigade' and it was caused by a communication break-down. Both Lucan and Cardigan knew it was a suicide charge, and that something had gone wrong, but they were bound by orders to do so, and if they had disobeyed they would have been court-martialled and likely executed. As Tennysons famous poem was to put it:

"'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldiers knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred."

There have been many instances in history where the strategy and wisdom of commanders have been questioned, only for them to deliver a coup de grace on the battlefield, sometimes it is merely down to the hand of fate to deliver them from disaster, other times there are greater strategic decisions at work, but each time if their orders had been disobeyed then victory or defeat may have stemmed from it.

At the end of the day both gentlemen in the pictures will fight Assad if called upon to do so, or if the gentleman who has hidden his face feels so strongly about the decision then he will refuse orders and accept the punishment that follows and/or resign. Certainly posting pictures like that is not exactly good for the image of his branch of armed forces, but equally it does help to dispel the myth of soldiers being mindless automatons that some people like to believe.
No-one forced that gentleman to sign up, and he should have known that when you sign that paper, you go where they tell you to go, it's not Thomson cruises, it's war, and you're just a very small cog in a very big machine.


(Please note: This is my opinion only, I have not served in the armed forces, nor am I likely to [unless we reinstall conscription, and even then since I'm flat-footed I'd probably wind up somewhere behind friendly lines guarding a depot of toilet rolls] and so, as such, I defer to the more experienced opinion of those that have which may or may not tally with mine.)

[August]

Again Oberon that's assuming he is a real Navy Chief and not someone posing as one to make a political point.

That's the problem with anonymity. I don't know if either man is the real McCoy but at least the one that I posted can be authenticated. How do we determine the authenticity of someone who hides their identity?

BTW 10 points for quoting Tennyson. Good show old man!

Ordered to clear a village is a lawful order.
Ordered to kill men, women, and children while clearing same village is an unlawful order.

It's in the wording/execution of any order as to the lawfulness.

[August]

Originally Posted by privateer

Ordered to clear a village is a lawful order.
Ordered to kill men, women, and children while clearing same village is an unlawful order.

It's in the wording/execution of any order as to the lawfulness.

Exactly, and refusing to deploy to the village on the chance that one might possibly be ordered to do something unlawful is mutiny.

Originally Posted by August

Exactly, and refusing to deploy to the village on the chance that one might possibly be ordered to do something unlawful is mutiny.

Missing transport to said area for any reason can be charged as an Article 87

“Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design misses the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”


(1) That the accused was required in the course of duty to move with a ship, aircraft or unit;
(2) That the accused knew of the prospective movement of the ship, aircraft or unit;
(3) That the accused missed the movement of the ship, aircraft or unit; and
(4) That the accused missed the movement through design or neglect.


Show all the signs you want. Unit moves? You arse BETTER be with it!

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Looks like the Syrians hacked Marines.com

Also saw this image a little while ago...

The Chief always knows whats really going on.

Look at all those pretty ribbons.

@ August,
I still remember our conversation of the military today and the number of ribbons given out to people.

See below.

[August]

Yep if it were up to me i'd limit it to three rows of ribbons.

[Oberon]

Well if he defragged his hard-drive a little more often then it'd only be three rows.

On these photos.
If you sign up but then object, do so within the conditions you agreed to and accept the consequences set out in your contract.
If you think politicians are lying scheming individuals who can send you off on a whim which you may not agree with, don't sign up.