Plane hijacking...

[MaDef]

I think you guys are misconstruing my question. If Belarus has sovereign authority within it's airspace, and to govern it's citizens, what specific law or treaty was broken that elevates this incident to a hijacking.

Did Belarus actually break a law, or is calling this incident a hijacking due to people not liking the heavy handed way Belarus exercised it's authority?

[Skybird]

Where is the claimed Hamas bomb? Why does nobody know anything about such a claimed Hamas threat? Why are the intel services in the world silent about it? Why the divertion to Minsk instead to Vilnius that was just half the distance?

The many crimes committed in various dictatorships in history and throughout the world. Random toprture and random murder. Sielcnign critics in secret prisons. Gagging media. Shooting people trying to flee from the regime, shooting people calling the crime at the state top by its name . These acts of state terror do not become defendable and legal and morally fine just because they were committed on the grounds of regime-written laws. Do you think they are acceptable and excusable because they were covered by regime-made self-given "laws"? The execution of Sophie Scholl, as mentioned in another thread recently, was according to the the German laws, so was the plundering of Jews and deportation into camps. The StaSi acted within the laws, so were the shooters at the inner-German border when they killed a traitor of the republic who tried to flee from the GDR. Al that was "legal" and on the groudns of laws.

Obviously laws can be made to turn crime into civil duties, barbary into a servie to the claimed common good, and violation of moral ideals the standard by which to judge obedience to the laws.

The list of examples showing why your question focus is misled and wrong, is endless. Your question does not matter. It is a distraction, and you know it. The intetion of the regime is what decides this. And the intention never was international air traffic security, it was to get a wanted regime critic angrying Lukashenko into custody to silence him off.

And btw, as a side-effect of far-reaching consequences you imply that justice and moral legitimation is just a mere formality decided by ink on paper. That may apply to the written formula, but the formula is not the essence of justice and moralöity, but imprefect and incomplete as it necessarily always must be, it can only hope, if well-designed - to get close to these ideals - or, if being abused for malice and corruption, it is meant form beginning non to hide malice itself, and defend it, and make it appear as the defender of the good and justice.


At the core it is about moral principles, and an ideal of justice. Sometimes weclaim some of thes eidelass to be so generla and univeraal that we clal them human rights, to underline their basic and penultimate relevance. And you cannot corrupt that so easily as with just writing an opportunistic rule.


Paragraphsd are just placeholders for a higher value - or an alibi to hide the absence of the latter. I dont know how it is with you, but my decision whether I am loyal to a law never is because of the letter of the law, but the intention behind the law. The worst of crimes and the most malicious of barbary have often been committed on the grounds of obeying laws or obeying commands.



Nuremburg trials, anyone? That had somehtign to say on this.

[Rockstar]

The day of dictatorships in europe should have ended years ago and I can get behind any movement or governments that seeks to rid this world of them.

My main problem is why so many just hop right on the bandwagon of supporting and or replacing these dictators with the likes of that racist uneducated dumbass Navalny or the gun toting journalist plastered on the front cover of a neo nazi magazine. We can do better don't ya think?

Is there anyone out there worthy of my support that doesn't have such extremist skeletons hidden in their closet? Why dont we hear more of that Nobel Laureate Svetlana Tikhanovskaya or other seemingly more reasonable people that are opposing Lukashenko?

[MaDef]

And the intention never was international air traffic security, it was to get a wanted regime critic angrying Lukashenko into custody to silence him off.

So this incident was a "criminal" apprehension rather than an actual Hijacking.

[Sean C]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Itwould be pretty hard to argue against the above.

Government officials are experts at arguing against what seem to be clear facts. Mind you, I'm not saying their arguments are the least bit convincing.

[Skybird]

And again.


https://www.dw.com/en/kremlin-clampd...ues/a-57750245


Meanwhile the German ambassador travels around in Russia an gives smiles.

[Jimbuna]

Russia and Belarus are similar due to the fact they are both ruled by democratically elected dictators.

[Skybird]

Plural...? It was always Putin's calculation to bring Belarus back home into the Sovjet Reich. The total, helpless dependency of Lukashenko is expression of this formula working well.

[Jimbuna]

Good to see Germany eventually growing a pair.

Aircraft of Russian airlines that have taken off in Russia are not allowed to land in Germany. The reason is an incident with Lufthansa flights, which were unable to land in Russia because the Russian permission took too long.

Flights from Germany, France and Austria could not fly to Moscow or Saint Petersburg in recent days, because Russia did not give permission. According to Russia, this is because there is a technical problem, but the problems arose shortly after the decision of European countries to no longer fly over Belarus. The Kremlin supports the Belarusian government.
https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/bui...out&li=BBoPEwG

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Good to see Germany eventually growing a pair.

Meh, they'll grumble, make a few speeches, and as always blame their woes on some far right boogieman . But the rhetoric ends when winter sets and they need Putin to heat their homes.

Tsikhanouskaya has spent months crisscrossing Europe to muster support for her movement. She is often greeted with the reverence reserved for a head of state or a heroic conscience of the nation and, I suspect, was understandably frustrated by the lack of follow-through to the grandiose promises of support made to the opposition by European politicians. But with the act of air piracy shocking the world, the new situation offers a tremendous opportunity to reenergize both the opposition and the willingness of Europeans to offer support.
“Europe did a great deal in the beginning and offered a great deal of moral support, and afterward, the question is how far and how quickly they could go in implementing aggressive actions against the regime,” she said. “Since December [2020], that is for six months, we have had no new concrete actions on sanctions or movement on more civil society assistance. We call on the European Union to be braver.”

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/01...n-protasevich/

[Skybird]

No, you read too much into it. The delay of flight permissions given by the Russians stems from time table distortions due to Corona. And to avoid distoritng and compressing tiem tables even more, German auhtorities also stopped their flight permissions. At least thats the narrative given by German regime media yesterday evening, ZDF Heute, the daily main news program beside ARD Tagesschau.


The only noteworthy detail here is that this relatively minor story catches so much speculative attention and interpretation. It shows how tense relations between Russia and Germany are.