Massive CEO rewards for tax dodging

[Catfish]

edit: *****deleted

Obama had his chance ? I can only see that republicans began to run amok as soon as he was elected into office. He is an islamist, he was not born in the US, block all he does, he is satan, whatever.
All major companies and organisations that somehow control or at least influence America were against him, only they did not have the majority in votes. Not to speak about the open hate that broke its way into the media and was watched with irritation worldwide. You know what to think about Fux news, but shots came from all sides USA.
He did NOT get the important things through. What he did was listening to those spin doctors telling him to continue Bush's war against terrorists, only using drones now and killing civilians as collateral damage.

1. He thought he could turn the rudder around, and idiot that he was expected America to understand and support him - "his dream".

2. The real important things he tried to get through the senate were blocked, just for the "fun" of blocking and destroying, being counter-constructive against anything democrate regardless what would be good for the nation. If Obama said he liked the american flag republicans would burn it.

3. The same presidential advisors that already advised Bush are in charge, big money. Along with the CIA it seems some never trusted him, Obama's fault was not to fire them instantly, but he obviously thought he needed their knowledge and thought it would be the best for the nation.

He did not get his own plan through, there is just too much resistance by the folks really in charge. However he did get some things through:
A lot of the eastern world has now also declared war to the terrorists coming from their very countries. Supporting Libya. Making an offer to the islamic world was one of the right things to do, even if thought out by the Bush administration. Unemployment in the US is falling, it already began a few months ago. As well changes need time to take effect.

I really don't know how the next president will look like, and how the nation as a whole will support him - or not.

In Germany with the middle class breaking away there will be a scissor-like development, lots of poor and a few real-rich. I do not think this is something to look forward to.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Maybe he is just an a$$hole ? Or even worse, he's black.

Obama had his chance ? I can only see that republicans began to run amok as soon as he was elected into office. He is an islamist, he was not born in the US, block all he does, he is satan, whatever.
All major companies and organisations that somehow control or at least influence America were against him, only they did not have the majority in votes. Not to speak about the open hate that broke its way into the media and was watched with irritation worldwide. You know what to think about Fux news, but shots came from all sides USA.
He did NOT get the important things through. What he did was listening to those spin doctors telling him to continue Bush's war against terrorists, only using drones now and killing civilians as collateral damage.

1. He thought he could turn the rudder around, and idiot that he was expected America to understand and support him - "his dream".

2. The real important things he tried to get through the senate were blocked, just for the "fun" of blocking and destroying, being counter-constructive against anything democrate regardless what would be good for the nation. If Obama said he liked the american flag republicans would burn it.

3. The same presidential advisors that already advised Bush are in charge, big money. Along with the CIA it seems some never trusted him, Obama's fault was not to fire them instantly, but he obviously thought he needed their knowledge and thought it would be the best for the nation.

He did not get his own plan through, there is just too much resistance by the folks really in charge. However he did get some things through:
A lot of the eastern world has now also declared war to the terrorists coming from their very countries. Supporting Libya. Making an offer to the islamic world was one of the right things to do, even if thought out by the Bush administration. Unemployment in the US is falling, it already began a few months ago. As well changes need time to take effect.

I really don't know how the next president will look like, and how the nation as a whole will support him - or not.

In Germany with the middle class breaking away there will be a scissor-like development, lots of poor and a few real-rich. I do not think this is something to look forward to.

Wow..... and what this has to do with the issue here.
So you are mixing your ideological hate with rational discussion about taxes.

[August]

Originally Posted by MH

mixing your ideological hate with rational discussion

Yeah I know, it's been a common theme throughout this thread.

[Catfish]

My ideological hate ? Where ?

Millionaires dodge taxes alright, so you like what e.g. your bank managers did and do, while the middle class is going haywire ?
Is this ideological ? I think it is calling a spade a spade.
(Ah I see, must be Obama's fault again )

But really, why this hate against Obama ? It even shines through here.


For what i read in the first four months of this year, an average of 180,000 jobs were created each month in the US. In 2011, that is.

This makes some 2.1 million jobs a year. Not soo bad. Then the Republican "Tea Party congress" (this is what it is) refused to honor the nation's debts without major spending cuts, with no new revenue.
When the sh!t hit the fan and this "debate" crashed right through the deadline, this job creation mentioned stopped.
The republicans being happy to have brought through all their ideas (almost a hundred percent of what they wanted) had passed their plan. Only when business began to absorb the new conditions and implications of said plan, the stock market crashed down some thousand points and there were no jobs created.
Fact is this plan failed, like it did before in those 8 years with Bush junior.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Obama had his chance ? I can only see that republicans began to run amok as soon as he was elected into office. He is an islamist, he was not born in the US, block all he does, he is satan, whatever.

Really? Like that was any more "amok" than "Bush = Hitler" and "Bush doesn't care about Black People" and "Bush Lied, People Died"?

The fact is the current Presidents party has controlled both houses of Congress for two whole years before they also captured the White House. The Republicans could not block anything. Your attempt at historical revisionism has failed.

[Catfish]

oops sorry,
seems i indeed mistook this thread for another - it's off topic here i admit. Will let the text stand however, if no moderator removes it (?)

Just to answer August

Originally Posted by August

Really? Like that was any more "amok" than "Bush = Hitler" and "Bush doesn't care about Black People" and "Bush Lied, People Died"?

I never said that, but for what i heard and read I think there might be a very small minor little microscopic point of truth in there.
The republicans could not block anything ? What about the latest plan i mentioned ?
-> but maybe in another thread, as i said before: Sorry.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by August

I can do without the sarcasm Armistead.

It seems like you and I have a different definitions of middle class.

To me middle class is a Small Business Owner, Engineer, Teacher, Architect, Doctor, Lawyer and other careers with similar degrees of education and professional qualifications.

What you and others here keep calling middle class are actually working class which in this country have been paid wages that approach those of the middle class.

Almost funny, you list positions of some of the highest paid, cept not sure teachers should be in there. Lawyers and Doctors middle class, I don't think so. The middle class has always been considered the working class, cept they use to have a decent livable wage.

Study how things have changed since the 70's, but it was Bush Sr and after that a systemic destruction of the middle class took effect. We simply allow US corps to operate at will in the world with no care that it's destroying our nation. Shame on all that regulation and tax code that built the greatest nation in the world.

Sure, corps say there is too much regulation, taxes too high so they will stay overseas, but that's because they can with all the new laws. When they were forced to work for America they operated and made great money, now it's about elitism, make enough money to control world politics.

[Diopos]

Originally Posted by August

Has that ever happened?

Well, according to this:

DIVIDENDS DO MATTER. THEY HAVE ACCOUNTED for more than 40% of the annual returns of the Standard & Poor's 500 since 1926, and more than 100% of the returns over the past 10 years -- the lost decade, during which the index declined.
Despite this, many financially strong companies don't pay a dividend. Among them: Apple, Google, Cisco Systems, Amgen, eBay, Dell and DirecTV. It's time for them to consider a change. Many simply are hoarding cash that properly belongs to shareholders.
Apple (ticker: AAPL) sits on almost $40 billion and has no debt. Google (GOOG) has $24.5 billion and no debt. Cisco (CSCO) has $25.1 billion of net cash.
...

.

[Catfish]

Was unnecessary, deleted it.
Thanks

[Sailor Steve]

Oh, no.

Thank you.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by August

Really? Like that was any more "amok" than "Bush = Hitler" and "Bush doesn't care about Black People" and "Bush Lied, People Died"?

still doesn't make up for the Uncivilized way the GOP has been acting in government. and, I don't think the issue being discussed is private citizens' feelings on obama. To me, It feels as if there is a concerted effort to hinder the president, no matter what the cost to the people of this nation, and it's something that I Have never seen before. And I think that's what is giving us the feeling that the GOP hates obama.

I might add though, It wasn't obama who lied to get us into Iraq. It's been pretty obvious since the start Iraq was trumped up. Also, although accusations of racism are unfair...bush, his cabinet, and government, really did play a role a large role in the botching of the Katrina aftermath. Heck, Dick Cheney even diverted crews so they could power the oil pipeline, rather then restore power to the hospital.

[Blood_splat]

Remember they won't be able to create jobs in Malaysia if they have to pay taxes.

[CaptainHaplo]

To return to the original topic.....

Readers of this thread will see a lot about corporations taking legal deductions, and how this is still "wrong" in some way because they pay for lobbists to get tax codes from congress that allows this.

Note that this makes the corporations "evil","unethical", etc.

However - what does this make Congress? Should Congress not be standing firm and fixing this?

Now lets be fair here. Republicans want to "protect" business - ok fine. So with that argument its fair to say that in 2010, the change in congress would effectively halt tax reform. Lets pretend this is true (since some would debate it). Why then, in the 2 years when the legislature and the executive were controlled by the left, was there no serious tax reform proposed?

Neither "old school" party wants real change. Raising taxes won't eliminate the loopholes, so the left can still claim that corporations are "shady" while following the law. The right wants to lessen the burden, but not clear away the muck to make it more transparent.

Calls for a flat tax, corporate and personal - yet neither of the "power players" on EITHER side are willing to support such a thing. Both sides talk about how "its not fair", yet neither side works to resolve that.

Want fair - then tax equally. Exempt those items necessary for life. Food, clothing, housing, electrical and water. Everything else should be taxed. Millionaires don't become millionaires by pinching pennies. They make their money work. When the share is equal - both sides lose their greatest weapon, the ability to point to the other side and claim its all their fault.....

[Skybird]

I repeat it: politics and private business are in bed with each other. Politics and it'S representatives are not indepedently acting and deciding from private business, often people hold a poltical mandate and a seat in an director'S board at the same time, and also: plenty of golden handshakes are being done every day, the wanted legislation get'S payed for by those who can afford it.

Do not blame corrupted congress, Haplo. A corrupted congress acts simply natural: corrupt, and in the own interest (career, power) of those representing it.

Do blame the stupid people voting for such congresses, and parties: and this I aim at Americans, but also at Europeans.

Stop voting for this sick, selfish breed. Stop legitimising the fundament on which they stand, and rule from. No matter what party you vote for: you give a much more fundamental legitimation by doing so: by playing by their rules and voting for any of them, you legitimise the very system itself, no matter which party you vote for. And while you think your voice counts, certain people invest much money into corruption to make their voice count many times more than yours.

You all get sold and betrayed - and still you say thank-you every four years, and sign a mandate for them to carry on like this. And then you are surprised that things never change!?!? You need to get rid of both the actors - AND the very system that forms themn, grows and breeds them, allows them to hide in, and is the ever-present background against which they erect their shining careers and stacks of power and influence - that has never been legitimised and voted for by any voter, but gets hidden from said voter.

It'S all show, and it is as much democratic as in "German Democratic Republic". We do not live in "de,moicracies". We live in something like meta-corruption: corruption that has secured itself so much power that it now has the power to even legitimise itself by changing the rules that before it had to violate (which made the act of corruption actually "corrupt"). And thgat way, corruptiuon becomes the new principle of order and legitimacy.

Meanwhile this has become one of my most favourite movie quotes:

"This is how liberty dies - with thundering applaus."

[Catfish]

"Democracy is the illusion, that my wife and I, have the double influence on elections, than Mr. Rockefeller."

"If elections changed anything, they would be forbidden."


I agree though that what we have is only a democracy people had in mind around 1900, before big business took over and lay in bed with the media like Rupert Mudochs's Fox "news". At that time no one imagined that political acting and thinking would corrode in such a way that the business changed from taking influence to taking over.

I guess the real problem is to give certain people power, instead of organisations as a whole. Single people with enough power and money and controlling the media can do virtually everything, Mr. Berlusconi is only one shining example.
B.t.w. what about Ghaddafi as the next italian "president" (sic) ? He even has better-looking bodyguards.