SH5: Back in Atlantic or Again in Pacific? - Page 4

Donavan · 05-30-07, 09:47 PM

Don't care, I won't buy it until after it's playable. Maybe 6 months to a year.

05-31-07, 04:40 AM

I think i'd like to see the Atlantic done "well" before proceeding to other theatres. SH3 was good but not excellent, there were no Wolfpacks which is an essential part of the Atlantic theatre. Milk Cows had to be modded in and could be so much better. The sub should be moddeled in its entirety, allowing us to move throughout all the compartments. Damage was and still is terribly implemented. Sh3 and SH4 are still too "gamey" when they really need to be "simulations". I think the game mechanics need to be redesigned from the ground up in an open format, then bolt on a graphics engine. I could go on and on, the list is pretty endless and SH3 achieved about 30% of that list.

joea · 05-31-07, 10:45 AM

I really hate to ask, but why do any of you even think we'll get an SH5 after all the drama? :hmm:

tommyk · 05-31-07, 12:53 PM

SH5? Hmm, I wish it to be more a sim... I dont like to hear with sonar through islands... I like to have radar echos from landmass...

Mudrik · 05-31-07, 01:17 PM

I think that discussing SH5 is a bit premature seeing as SHIV is still a fantastic game which has yet to realise it's full potential but I agree with the suggestion that SH5 should be set in WWII with the choice to play missions or campaigns in either the Atlantic or the Pacific and also play as any nationality (obviously only the ones that had subs - joining the Nepalese Navy may be a pretty poor career choice).

One of my other favourite games is IL-2. The ability to play as any nationality in any theater is a sound option. Sometimes I want to shoot down Spitfires, sometimes ME109s, however the mood takes me.

I also think that WWII games are much more immersive. When I was a kid jet fighters and nuclear subs were cool but as you get older and wiser you gain more respect for the chaps that fought in the 2 world wars.

Nuclear subs are boring. Fire and forget active torps, massive depths, 6 months at sea constantly submerged, ICBMs from thousands of miles away. Where's the fun and tension in that?

robbierob2005 · 05-31-07, 03:55 PM

Please wwii in the atlantic! Perhaps with a full modelled boat.

Drifter9 · 06-01-07, 10:01 AM

I'd like to see the Pacific again, maybe with Japan and the US both as playable sides. I don't want to see the Atlantic again because, as nice as SH3 was, I hate playing as a Nazi.

What I'd really like to see is a fictional cold war SH5 set in the late fifties between NATO and the Warsaw pact. I’d love to see some diesel boat vs diesel boat combat. I think it would be interesting with surface ships having better ASW but still using charges among other things. Plus you could have some guided and some old fashion torpedoes too. It would be a nice gap between WW2 sub games and 688(I) and those newer sub games. It wouldn't be some all electro fire and forget game you would still have some old school sub combat with some very cool looking subs.

Binky1st · 06-01-07, 11:38 AM

The next silent hunter if there is one should be modern day some we can nuke people we dont like

Mudrik · 06-01-07, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter9

I'd like to see the Pacific again, maybe with Japan and the US both as playable sides. I don't want to see the Atlantic again because, as nice as SH3 was, I hate playing as a Nazi.

Check your history, not all Germans were Nazis you know, especially not U-boat crews. They were brave men who faced near certain death everytime they left port. Once radar was developed to a point where the escort destroyers could pinpoint even a periscope, the U-boats were doomed and yet the mad man that Hitler was just kept on sending them off to their deaths

tater · 06-01-07, 12:17 PM

Yeah, most French were in the resistance, too.

You can look at this 2 ways, you can only count card-carrying members, and then maybe you are right. You can also count passive supporters, in which case you are likely wrong. During the "happy time" how many hated the regime they were supporting through their actions? How many hated the regime when they were losing? Fair weather...

It would be insulting (and stupid) to imply that any player here is a Nazi for playing SH3, it's a game. Implying that you are immunized from that charge because real u-boats somehow weren't "Nazi" is BS, IMO. At the very least they were the willing tools of that regime. Anyone who didn't actively sabotage the war effort was complicit in some way. If they really hated their masters they could have defected. A massive u-boat defection would have done far more to save German lives than being so very effective because it would have shortened the war.

This is particularly true of U-boats, BTW, since they had a freedom of operation that no infantry guys could ever have hoped for. Once at sea, they were utterly free to do as they pleased and no one would ever know they were not simply sunk (most submarines were lost ithout a trace).

Mudrik · 06-01-07, 12:46 PM

I would never suggest that anyone is a Nazi. I live in a country where there are political forces who believe in white supremacy and recently returned from a trip to Germany where there is a growing neo-nazi movement which is very frightening.

Sure the Nazis were fanatics but I am sure that most Germans were fighting to protect their country and their loved ones at home. Many ordinary Germans supported Hitler because he originally gave them hope after their defeat in WW1 and the subsequent economic depression.

To suggest that every German who didn't defect must have been a fanatic is so wrong. Plenty of Germans were put against a wall and shot for disagreeing with the Nazis. Have you ever heard of the plot to assassinate Hitler? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_20_Plot). Enough high ranking Wermacht officers were tortured and shot for even knowing about the plot.

Anyway, this is all a matter of opinion and I am not here to fall out with anyone. When it comes to games there is no harm in playing the Germans, afterall, they did have the best uniforms!

tater · 06-01-07, 01:27 PM

A handfull of officers after it should have been crystal clear to everyone they had long since lost any hope of winning, or even a negotiated peace. That's it, huh? The evidence of people not liking the regime...

Sorry, but it took many many hundreds of thousands of willing actors just to accomplish the worst crimes of the 3d Reich. Yes, I do think that failing to act proactively is tantamount to complicity. Fighting to protect their homes? From WHAT exactly? Both of the "Happy Times" for U-boats were during a period where the Axis was winning as far as anyone in Germany would have known (eastern front only beginning to go really sour and it's not like they got unadulterated news). What was U-boat morale like? Any plots in June 1940? No, people were giddy.

Passive support was far more prevalent than you might imagine. I actually used to have lunch periodically with a history prof who retired here. He was an intelligence officer for the WM on the eastern front (he studied russian at university) before he was transferred to France, then taken POW after France was liberated (then moved to the US at some point and became a professor). The "worker's party" was quite popular until things went south according to him. They just went with the flow, and when things were looking good, the party looked great to everyone, nevermind the boxcars, we own France! Interesting lunches, I'd mention a subject, then just sit back and listen for an hour. Always felt a little odd though. As nice a guy as he was at lunch, there was always this sense of something untold... dunno, I felt a little "dirty" sometimes after talking with him, though the first hand accounts were fascinating.

This is obviously way OT, it's just that the "they were just doing their jobs" nonsense annoys me is all. People in general should be held responsible for their action—or inaction—in the face of evil IMO.

Ula Jolly · 06-01-07, 01:43 PM

GNF!
Controllable surface ships!

I want a game for exactly the same as SH3 - only with surface ships. Hawmigod, WWI/WWII would just be so awesome.

Perhaps made a bit unrealistic in order to make it more fun and get more kills, but YES I want to control that armed trawler in '38 and progress to a light cruiser on a PQ-convoy under attack by some dreaded battleships!

kv29 · 06-01-07, 01:44 PM

no need for sh5 yet. The next step for UBI should be an expantion pack for the Atlantic & Mediterranean sea with Uboats again, a good storyline, and a few changes of course.

orangenee · 06-01-07, 01:46 PM

Tater, a phrase comes to mind about the last part of your post. "All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to stand by and do nothing."

View Poll Results: SH5: Back in Atlantic or Again in Pacific?
Atlantic	87	62.59%
Pacific	31	22.30%
It is the same for me	21	15.11%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

05-31-07, 12:53 PM	#49
tommyk Watch Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Near U-995 (Kiel, Germany) Posts: 337 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	SH5? Hmm, I wish it to be more a sim... I dont like to hear with sonar through islands... I like to have radar echos from landmass... __________________ Gute Jagd und fette Beute!

06-01-07, 01:43 PM	#58
Ula Jolly Samurai Navy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 567 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	GNF! Controllable surface ships! I want a game for exactly the same as SH3 - only with surface ships. Hawmigod, WWI/WWII would just be so awesome. Perhaps made a bit unrealistic in order to make it more fun and get more kills, but YES I want to control that armed trawler in '38 and progress to a light cruiser on a PQ-convoy under attack by some dreaded battleships! __________________ I shall punish yee, landlubber! C'mere for spankings and popsicles!

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05-30-07, 09:47 PM	#46
Donavan Seaman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 31 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Don't care, I won't buy it until after it's playable. Maybe 6 months to a year.

05-31-07, 04:40 AM	#47
Uber Gruber Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I think i'd like to see the Atlantic done "well" before proceeding to other theatres. SH3 was good but not excellent, there were no Wolfpacks which is an essential part of the Atlantic theatre. Milk Cows had to be modded in and could be so much better. The sub should be moddeled in its entirety, allowing us to move throughout all the compartments. Damage was and still is terribly implemented. Sh3 and SH4 are still too "gamey" when they really need to be "simulations". I think the game mechanics need to be redesigned from the ground up in an open format, then bolt on a graphics engine. I could go on and on, the list is pretty endless and SH3 achieved about 30% of that list.

05-31-07, 10:45 AM	#48
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I really hate to ask, but why do any of you even think we'll get an SH5 after all the drama? :hmm:

05-31-07, 01:17 PM	#50
Mudrik Gunner Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: passing thermal layer, silent running Posts: 94 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think that discussing SH5 is a bit premature seeing as SHIV is still a fantastic game which has yet to realise it's full potential but I agree with the suggestion that SH5 should be set in WWII with the choice to play missions or campaigns in either the Atlantic or the Pacific and also play as any nationality (obviously only the ones that had subs - joining the Nepalese Navy may be a pretty poor career choice). One of my other favourite games is IL-2. The ability to play as any nationality in any theater is a sound option. Sometimes I want to shoot down Spitfires, sometimes ME109s, however the mood takes me. I also think that WWII games are much more immersive. When I was a kid jet fighters and nuclear subs were cool but as you get older and wiser you gain more respect for the chaps that fought in the 2 world wars. Nuclear subs are boring. Fire and forget active torps, massive depths, 6 months at sea constantly submerged, ICBMs from thousands of miles away. Where's the fun and tension in that?

05-31-07, 03:55 PM	#51
robbierob2005 Watch Officer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Beneath the surface..... Posts: 334 Downloads: 83 Uploads: 0	Please wwii in the atlantic! Perhaps with a full modelled boat.

06-01-07, 10:01 AM	#52
Drifter9 Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'd like to see the Pacific again, maybe with Japan and the US both as playable sides. I don't want to see the Atlantic again because, as nice as SH3 was, I hate playing as a Nazi. What I'd really like to see is a fictional cold war SH5 set in the late fifties between NATO and the Warsaw pact. I’d love to see some diesel boat vs diesel boat combat. I think it would be interesting with surface ships having better ASW but still using charges among other things. Plus you could have some guided and some old fashion torpedoes too. It would be a nice gap between WW2 sub games and 688(I) and those newer sub games. It wouldn't be some all electro fire and forget game you would still have some old school sub combat with some very cool looking subs.

06-01-07, 11:38 AM	#53
Binky1st Bosun Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK Posts: 65 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The next silent hunter if there is one should be modern day some we can nuke people we dont like

06-01-07, 12:17 PM	#55
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, most French were in the resistance, too. You can look at this 2 ways, you can only count card-carrying members, and then maybe you are right. You can also count passive supporters, in which case you are likely wrong. During the "happy time" how many hated the regime they were supporting through their actions? How many hated the regime when they were losing? Fair weather... It would be insulting (and stupid) to imply that any player here is a Nazi for playing SH3, it's a game. Implying that you are immunized from that charge because real u-boats somehow weren't "Nazi" is BS, IMO. At the very least they were the willing tools of that regime. Anyone who didn't actively sabotage the war effort was complicit in some way. If they really hated their masters they could have defected. A massive u-boat defection would have done far more to save German lives than being so very effective because it would have shortened the war. This is particularly true of U-boats, BTW, since they had a freedom of operation that no infantry guys could ever have hoped for. Once at sea, they were utterly free to do as they pleased and no one would ever know they were not simply sunk (most submarines were lost ithout a trace).

06-01-07, 12:46 PM	#56
Mudrik Gunner Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: passing thermal layer, silent running Posts: 94 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I would never suggest that anyone is a Nazi. I live in a country where there are political forces who believe in white supremacy and recently returned from a trip to Germany where there is a growing neo-nazi movement which is very frightening. Sure the Nazis were fanatics but I am sure that most Germans were fighting to protect their country and their loved ones at home. Many ordinary Germans supported Hitler because he originally gave them hope after their defeat in WW1 and the subsequent economic depression. To suggest that every German who didn't defect must have been a fanatic is so wrong. Plenty of Germans were put against a wall and shot for disagreeing with the Nazis. Have you ever heard of the plot to assassinate Hitler? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_20_Plot). Enough high ranking Wermacht officers were tortured and shot for even knowing about the plot. Anyway, this is all a matter of opinion and I am not here to fall out with anyone. When it comes to games there is no harm in playing the Germans, afterall, they did have the best uniforms!

06-01-07, 01:27 PM	#57
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	A handfull of officers after it should have been crystal clear to everyone they had long since lost any hope of winning, or even a negotiated peace. That's it, huh? The evidence of people not liking the regime... Sorry, but it took many many hundreds of thousands of willing actors just to accomplish the worst crimes of the 3d Reich. Yes, I do think that failing to act proactively is tantamount to complicity. Fighting to protect their homes? From WHAT exactly? Both of the "Happy Times" for U-boats were during a period where the Axis was winning as far as anyone in Germany would have known (eastern front only beginning to go really sour and it's not like they got unadulterated news). What was U-boat morale like? Any plots in June 1940? No, people were giddy. Passive support was far more prevalent than you might imagine. I actually used to have lunch periodically with a history prof who retired here. He was an intelligence officer for the WM on the eastern front (he studied russian at university) before he was transferred to France, then taken POW after France was liberated (then moved to the US at some point and became a professor). The "worker's party" was quite popular until things went south according to him. They just went with the flow, and when things were looking good, the party looked great to everyone, nevermind the boxcars, we own France! Interesting lunches, I'd mention a subject, then just sit back and listen for an hour. Always felt a little odd though. As nice a guy as he was at lunch, there was always this sense of something untold... dunno, I felt a little "dirty" sometimes after talking with him, though the first hand accounts were fascinating. This is obviously way OT, it's just that the "they were just doing their jobs" nonsense annoys me is all. People in general should be held responsible for their action—or inaction—in the face of evil IMO.

06-01-07, 01:44 PM	#59
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	no need for sh5 yet. The next step for UBI should be an expantion pack for the Atlantic & Mediterranean sea with Uboats again, a good storyline, and a few changes of course.

06-01-07, 01:46 PM	#60
orangenee Engineer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 211 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Tater, a phrase comes to mind about the last part of your post. "All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to stand by and do nothing."