[REL] Real Fleet Boat - Page 4

04-15-07, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Ok, then I don't know what I'm talking about

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

akdavis · 04-15-07, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

Quote:

Originally Posted by akdavis

I had been using the renown to correct the terrible crew make-up you are given as a default, mainly by dismissing 1-2 officers and bringing on board 1-2 more chief petty officers and a few other enlisted men with more appropiate skills. Unfortunately, no renown is returned to your pool when you dismiss an officer or enlisted man, so being forced to start with 0 renown is a bit of roadblock to crafting a more realistic crew...

Hmmm. I thought what I did would have a similar effect - it prevents the player from buying crewmen, so you have to go with a relatively green crew to start with. As the war progresses the starting renown allows you to buy more experienced crewmembers.

But I guess I could add more options back in for those who want them.

Actually, I use the renown to make my crew greener. I'm dismissing officers to replace them with enlisted men, but with zero renown, I can't even replace a 1000-point officer with a 250-point petty officer. I'm stuck with a crew with too many officers and with chief petty officers with inappropiate skills (i.e. two chief petty officers with both skill and specialization in guns, one in the aft torpedo room and one spending all his time on the deck gun station instead of leading a compartment).

IF the starting crew you are given was more realistic, the need for renown would be a nonissue, but as it stands, I'm using the renown to create a more realistic, more challenging crew make-up.

Sailor Steve · 04-15-07, 02:43 PM

Part of the problem with SH3 was that you always started with a green crew. The latest version of Commander fixed that.

In SH4 you might have to change your crew in 1941, but consider this: on US boats they rotated out roughly 1/3 of the crew at the end of each patrol, so newer boats could have experienced hands. If you're starting a career in 1943 or later, you might want to keep the crew they give you; at that point the experienced crew is more realistic.

akdavis · 04-15-07, 03:17 PM

The crew's experience or lack of is not the issue. It is the make-up of the crew. In the Gar-class below, you are given 72 crew members, including 6 officers and 5 chief petty officers. For the beginning of the war, you should only have about 60 total crew members, with 4 officers and 6 chief petty officers. Furthermore, officers should not be standing watch outside the control room or bridge/conning tower. An officer should not stand watch on the sensors. Chief petty officers should stand watch in other compartments. Chief petty officers should lead watches with appropiate skill sets. Chief petty officers should not have a skill sets such as having both skill and specialization dedicated to guns. They should be leaders. A chief petty officers should not be wasted sitting in the deck gun crew position.

Now all this can be reordered to a degree, resulting in a more realistic distribution and an overall greener/less efficient crew, but to do that, you need some renown to work with.

E.Hartmann · 04-15-07, 04:07 PM

hehe

I know what yo mean. My whole crew is officers now and they are worthless because each one has on one to give orders to. So they all set around in port and do nothing since there is no one to drive the boat as all the offiers feel its beneath them to do so. :rotfl:

Beery · 04-15-07, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedhealy

I think the complaint comes from the fact that US subs transferred about 1/3 of the experienced crew to new boats after a patrol. So on your first patrol not all of your crew should be green.

I left the crew with the default make-up. They aren't all green.

Just to clarify - I didn't mean to appear annoyed, but my wife was telling me to shut down my computer and get in the car, LOL, so I just made the quickest answer possible.

Beery · 04-15-07, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akdavis

The crew's experience or lack of is not the issue. It is the make-up of the crew. In the Gar-class below, you are given 72 crew members, including 6 officers and 5 chief petty officers. For the beginning of the war, you should only have about 60 total crew members, with 4 officers and 6 chief petty officers. Furthermore, officers should not be standing watch outside the control room or bridge/conning tower. An officer should not stand watch on the sensors. Chief petty officers should stand watch in other compartments. Chief petty officers should lead watches with appropiate skill sets. Chief petty officers should not have a skill sets such as having both skill and specialization dedicated to guns. They should be leaders. A chief petty officers should not be wasted sitting in the deck gun crew position...

All good info. This is the sort of stuff we need to get the crew re-ordered. Now I can work on re-ordering the crew starting positions.

Is the starting situation you illustrated valid throughout the war?

What sort of level of efficiency should I aim for and how many crewmen should be on board assuming I can re-assign abilities and crews for the following dates:

December 1941?
Early 1942?
Late 1942?
Early 1943?
Late 1943?
Early 1944?
Late 1944?
Early 1945?
Late 1945?

tedhealy · 04-15-07, 09:07 PM

Crew depends on the boat too.

S-Class - about 40
Porpoise, Salmon, Sargo - about 60
Tambor, Gar - about 65
Gato - 80+
Balao -75-80

info from http://www.valoratsea.com/boats.htm

akdavis · 04-15-07, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

Quote:

Originally Posted by akdavis

The crew's experience or lack of is not the issue. It is the make-up of the crew. In the Gar-class below, you are given 72 crew members, including 6 officers and 5 chief petty officers. For the beginning of the war, you should only have about 60 total crew members, with 4 officers and 6 chief petty officers. Furthermore, officers should not be standing watch outside the control room or bridge/conning tower. An officer should not stand watch on the sensors. Chief petty officers should stand watch in other compartments. Chief petty officers should lead watches with appropiate skill sets. Chief petty officers should not have a skill sets such as having both skill and specialization dedicated to guns. They should be leaders. A chief petty officers should not be wasted sitting in the deck gun crew position...

All good info. This is the sort of stuff we need to get the crew re-ordered. Now I can work on re-ordering the crew starting positions.

Is the starting situation you illustrated valid throughout the war?

What sort of level of efficiency should I aim for and how many crewmen should be on board assuming I can re-assign abilities and crews for the following dates:

December 1941?
Early 1942?
Late 1942?
Early 1943?
Late 1943?
Early 1944?
Late 1944?
Early 1945?
Late 1945?

No, not throughout the war. Crew complement swelled beyond the peacetime complement as the war progressed. Just perusing lists of losses, you can see that most fleet boats had a crew of 75-85 during the war.

The numbers I gave above were for the USS Gudgeon's first patrol (beginning just days after Pearl Harbor) and were fairly typical of a ship's complement at the start of the war, I believe. The Gudgeon had two additional reserve officers on board, but that was an exception at the time (they were along to observe).

Here are some "normal" (peacetime or early war, I would presume) complements from Jim Christley's US Submarines 1941-45:

Class Officers/Enlisted

S-class 4/34
Porpoise 5/45
Salmon 5/50
Sargo 5/50
Tambor 5/54
Gar 4/54
Gato 5/54
Balao 6/60

These complements from Hyperwar might be more indicative of wartime:

Class/complement
S-1 / 50
S-42 / 51
Porpoise / 73
Salmon / 75
Sargo / 78
Tambor / 75
Gar / 85
Gato / 80
Balao / 80

A quick sampling boats that lost all hands:

Boat / complement lost
S-26 / 46 (24 Jan., 1942)
S-44 / 56 (7 Oct., 1943)
Pickerel / 73 (12 May, 1943)
Shark (first) / 59 (11 Feb., 1942)
Sculpin / 63 (19th Nov., 1943, not clear if some crew survived captivity?)
Triton / 74 (10 Apr., 1943)
Grampus / 71 (5 Mar., 1943)
Gudgeon / 79 (18 Apr., 1944)

Gato class subs:
Grunion / 70 (31 Jul, 1942)
Amberjack / 74 (16 Feb, 1943)
Scorpion / 78 (6 Mar, 1944)
Bonefish / 85 (18 Jun, 1945)

Balao class:
Cisco / 76 (28 Sep, 1943)
Capelin / 78 (23 Nov, 1943)
Escolar / 82 (Oct, 1944)
Bullhead / 84 (6 Aug, 1945)

Boogie · 04-16-07, 07:26 AM

First of all I am not having a go at you I am not even saying your mod has caused it Beery I am a fully paid subsciber to the i installed it it's my fault thought ,but i am just trying to troubleshoot ,yours is the only mod i have used so far and since installation i have been having very strange crashes but only if i try to start a mission from outside the harbour if i go the whole hog and leave from the sub pen then i have no probs whatsoever,has anybody else had this error or is it just my computer jerking me around again.
By the way brilliant mod

Beery · 04-16-07, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogie

yours is the only mod i have used so far and since installation i have been having very strange crashes but only if i try to start a mission from outside the harbour if i go the whole hog and leave from the sub pen then i have no probs whatsoever

I see no way that any mod could cause that. The starting position is controlled by a simple latitude and longitude code number. That's the only difference between starting in base and starting out of base.

Boogie · 04-16-07, 09:46 AM

Yeah thats what i thought i was just clutching at straws i am having probs with my Mobo at the mo so methinks it's time to open the purse strings again ,of course one bonus of that is i can do a complete upgrade to an Uber system before 1.2 comes out,cheers anyway matey

04-16-07, 12:04 PM

I started outside harbour last night using RFB1.3 and had no problems. I would suggest a complete reinstall of SHIV, patch it and then use JSGME to layer RFB on top. I bet the religion of my first born that it'll solve your problem.

Boogie · 04-16-07, 01:04 PM

Already tried that mate ,thats what makes me think it's hardware not software,i have recently been playing with overclocking so i think i have probably popped somthing ,as i said this is the perfect excuse to do that major upgrade i have been putting of far to long now,OH well ho hum.thanks for the advice anyway.i shall have to play on my laptop for now instead.

Boogie · 04-16-07, 01:06 PM

[quote=Boogie]

Already tried that mate ,thats what makes me think it's hardware not software,i have recently been playing with overclocking so i think i have probably popped somthing ,as i said this is the perfect excuse to do that major upgrade i have been putting of far to long now,OH well ho hum.thanks for the advice anyway.i shall have to play on my laptop for now instead.

By the way beery whats with that freaky animation pal

PS.sorry fat fingers don't know how i double posted or how to get rid.

04-15-07, 02:43 PM	#48
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Part of the problem with SH3 was that you always started with a green crew. The latest version of Commander fixed that. In SH4 you might have to change your crew in 1941, but consider this: on US boats they rotated out roughly 1/3 of the crew at the end of each patrol, so newer boats could have experienced hands. If you're starting a career in 1943 or later, you might want to keep the crew they give you; at that point the experienced crew is more realistic. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

04-15-07, 03:17 PM	#49
akdavis Samurai Navy Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 597 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The crew's experience or lack of is not the issue. It is the make-up of the crew. In the Gar-class below, you are given 72 crew members, including 6 officers and 5 chief petty officers. For the beginning of the war, you should only have about 60 total crew members, with 4 officers and 6 chief petty officers. Furthermore, officers should not be standing watch outside the control room or bridge/conning tower. An officer should not stand watch on the sensors. Chief petty officers should stand watch in other compartments. Chief petty officers should lead watches with appropiate skill sets. Chief petty officers should not have a skill sets such as having both skill and specialization dedicated to guns. They should be leaders. A chief petty officers should not be wasted sitting in the deck gun crew position. Now all this can be reordered to a degree, resulting in a more realistic distribution and an overall greener/less efficient crew, but to do that, you need some renown to work with. __________________ -AKD

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04-15-07, 04:07 PM	#50
E.Hartmann Soundman Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 147 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	hehe I know what yo mean. My whole crew is officers now and they are worthless because each one has on one to give orders to. So they all set around in port and do nothing since there is no one to drive the boat as all the offiers feel its beneath them to do so. :rotfl:

04-15-07, 09:07 PM	#53
tedhealy Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO, USA Posts: 772 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Crew depends on the boat too. S-Class - about 40 Porpoise, Salmon, Sargo - about 60 Tambor, Gar - about 65 Gato - 80+ Balao -75-80 info from http://www.valoratsea.com/boats.htm

04-16-07, 07:26 AM	#55
Boogie Watch Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Abingdon,Oxford Posts: 16 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	First of all I am not having a go at you I am not even saying your mod has caused it Beery I am a fully paid subsciber to the i installed it it's my fault thought ,but i am just trying to troubleshoot ,yours is the only mod i have used so far and since installation i have been having very strange crashes but only if i try to start a mission from outside the harbour if i go the whole hog and leave from the sub pen then i have no probs whatsoever,has anybody else had this error or is it just my computer jerking me around again. By the way brilliant mod

04-16-07, 09:46 AM	#57
Boogie Watch Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Abingdon,Oxford Posts: 16 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Yeah thats what i thought i was just clutching at straws i am having probs with my Mobo at the mo so methinks it's time to open the purse strings again ,of course one bonus of that is i can do a complete upgrade to an Uber system before 1.2 comes out,cheers anyway matey

04-16-07, 12:04 PM	#58
Uber Gruber Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I started outside harbour last night using RFB1.3 and had no problems. I would suggest a complete reinstall of SHIV, patch it and then use JSGME to layer RFB on top. I bet the religion of my first born that it'll solve your problem.

04-16-07, 01:04 PM	#59
Boogie Watch Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Abingdon,Oxford Posts: 16 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Already tried that mate ,thats what makes me think it's hardware not software,i have recently been playing with overclocking so i think i have probably popped somthing ,as i said this is the perfect excuse to do that major upgrade i have been putting of far to long now,OH well ho hum.thanks for the advice anyway.i shall have to play on my laptop for now instead.

04-16-07, 01:06 PM	#60
Boogie Watch Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Abingdon,Oxford Posts: 16 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	[quote=Boogie] Already tried that mate ,thats what makes me think it's hardware not software,i have recently been playing with overclocking so i think i have probably popped somthing ,as i said this is the perfect excuse to do that major upgrade i have been putting of far to long now,OH well ho hum.thanks for the advice anyway.i shall have to play on my laptop for now instead. By the way beery whats with that freaky animation pal PS.sorry fat fingers don't know how i double posted or how to get rid.