What was the alfa really like?

[Kapitan]

worlds deepest diving millatery submarine project 685 mike or plavnik class SSN she has recorded a depth of 1020 meters and speeds of 35 knots

the worlds fastest millatery submarine according to the guiness world records is the al'fa class which currently holds the speed record for 45 knots

[Takeda Shingen]

Your source is the Guiness Book of World Records? Good Lord, I've had enough of this conversation.

Enjoy.

[SquidB]

Hmm. Without having read the book, and being unaware of the author(s)' credentials it is hard to comment. I am overdue in the purchase of additional research material, and I think I may pick up this book in the near future.

Not trying to throw a blanket on the discussion. I just have nothing further of substance to counter the claim (as of now, that is). He does seem certian, but all authors seem so.

Yep i agree, I must admit im playing devils advocate here. However if I had to put money or a beer on it Id belive the deep diving alfa.

Get the book, its one of the best ive read, easlily as good as blind mans bluff. Its nice to get another perspective on it all. The authors seem to have done their research well enough and it seems that the majority of their info is based on direct interviews with the captians in question.

As for bias, plenty of the captains slate the down right leathality of other russian designs and cite poor quality control as a albatros around the russian sub surface fleet.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kapitain

worlds deepest diving millatery submarine project 685 mike or plavnik class SSN she has recorded a depth of 1020 meters and speeds of 35 knots

The USS Dolphin AGSS-555 has a test depth of 920 Meters so its possible they have or could break that record but since the ship is still in service and takes part in secretive research its real max depth is still classified.

[Kapitan]

my source is no way the guiness world records however it is a good read

many reputable online sites suggest this:

FAS (federation of american scientists) states "diving depth 2,000 feet max safe however goes on to say crush depth up to 3,900meters"

arms control fails to give a diving depth
bellona in english also fails to give diving depth

harpoonhq "700 meters"

bellona in russian states "750 meters"

global security follows suite with the same stats as FAS.org

ship.bsu (russian site) states "750 meters"

submarines of the world "400 meters" however does not clarify as a certainty so that is void

project 705K russian states "750 meters"

atomic submarines of the USSR and russia (in russian) states "700 meters"

from these sources all of which reputable and known by nearly every one here i can only but conclude that the al'fas diving depth worked by average is between 700 meters and 750 meters

however it does vary and more research will be done to narrow it down to a more confident figure

my conclusion is this :

i personaly belive al'fa is only capible of 700 meters how ever i have heard some sources claim 900 and some deeper (some russian some american and some british)

my own though is that al'fa is capible of 700 meters and a speed of 45 knots she is noisey small and antiquated and would probly have trouble intercepting todays submarines however her speed and great depth could render some submarines a non firing solution which means cant get a fix quick enough and thus cant fire

[Kapitan]

could well be TLAM 1020 meters isnt ffar off for them but this is a full scale millatery submarine not a research vessel many people say if it cant sink a ship it cant be millatery but im open

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kapitain

could well be TLAM 1020 meters isnt ffar off for them but this is a full scale millatery submarine not a research vessel many people say if it cant sink a ship it cant be millatery but im open

She does have a single torpedo tube, so she could sink one ship... maybe two or three if their skipper is good like me.

Originally Posted by Kapitain

my own though is that al'fa is capible of 700 meters and a speed of 45 knots she is noisey small and antiquated and would probly have trouble intercepting todays submarines however her speed and great depth could render some submarines a non firing solution which means cant get a fix quick enough and thus cant fire

However the Alfa is an anti-ship platform, if the subs can't kill it the aircraft will. MPAs and Helos can keep up and drop a box of fish on it when it comes shallow to fire torpedoes (At 700 meters I bet it takes a lot of compressed air to fire).

[Takeda Shingen]

Now we're getting somewhere.

I am a doctoral candidate (Musicology) which makes me somewhat of a 'professional researcher' (I scour sources and compile information 15 hours a week). This, therefore, makes me somewhat authoritative when I state that in my experience, one printed (book, archive, etc) source is worth ten electronic (internet) sources. Any idot with a computer can post information on the web. This does not make it true.

So, I ask what are your printed sources?

[Kapitan]

sitting in a big red file that is about 700 pages long thats where and also other printed books as you suggest i have enough books to fill a libray (saracstic remark) i have about 60 diffrent books on ships and subs alone some written by just random people some by norman polmar or norman friedman igor kurdin and other people

my files contain at least 300,000 pages all together and thats just on submarines in the russian navy now in me saying that i dont realy go for surface info i excel in subs not ships thats why most of my info on the russian ships is so out

yet i excel at submarines cause submarine have been my life i was bought up learning and listing about them and now my room is jam packed with books files picture print outs kind of gives me the edge when it comes to printed files

[Takeda Shingen]

Come on. Stop snowballing and name them. I would like to evaluate them for myself.

[Kapitan]

huh name of what ? ive listed names FAS bellona global security russian worrior

if you mean in my printed files your going to have a very very very very long wait i have so many that asking for it in 5 mins is not at all possible however i could give you book names and authors easily

files that i mainly use are taken from the internet and evaluated i lengthen everything and then crop it ie find 5 sources write a review and stuff also then quote everything and then finaly squeese the vital stuff out if thats what your looking for the only way i can do that is if i buy a scanner and that wont be for a while either

i could pass you some info i have on cd rom which may be of use to you however you might want to pm me your email then i can pass you freely

[Takeda Shingen]

I am not asking you for all of your materials, just the ones with information pertaining to the discussion at hand. It should take significantly less than 5 minutes to give me 3 titles with authors so I can go to Amazon and order them for myself.

[Kapitan]

http://www.armybook.com/summary.html?code=0304006j83

direct link to one of my books i have (it is in russian)

http://www.myarmoury.com/books/item.php?ASIN=1574885944

i also have this one again a direct link however i have lent this one to a friend in spain

nuclear submarines of the soviet and russian navy by captain berezhonoy (1940-2000)

and the above book dont hhave an isbn number but its avalible on the web

[PeriscopeDepth]

Guess I should've taken Russian.

[Takeda Shingen]

Thank you. I am in the process of ordering the book from the first link.

The book in the second link is the very one that I have been quoting in this discussion.

I need two more. You don't have to get back to me right now, just look through your things.

EDIT: Don't worry, PD. My Russian is reasonable, and my cousin has a master's degree in it. We'll see what it says.

EDIT 2: Initially, it looks like an eastern PR release (like Popular Mechanics special features in the US), but I will reserve judgement until I have read it.