We tortured some folks. - Page 3

MH · 08-07-14, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

And you would be happy to deliberately harm someone and still not same those same lives. I find that not OK.

What makes you think so.
You would never be sure till you try.. Right.
To be clear I was not talking about asking every second afgan where OBL is.
It was more like asking OBL .

TarJak · 08-07-14, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

What makes you think so.
You would never be sure till you try.. Right.

Would you or wouldn't you?

donna52522 · 08-07-14, 03:03 AM

I would...If it meant saving innocent live, like our children.

donna52522 · 08-07-14, 03:14 AM

Where would you stand TarJak, for our children, or for terrorism?....Would you protect children, or give them up?

TarJak · 08-07-14, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donna52522

I would...If it meant saving innocent live, like our children.

And if it meant not saving lives? Or caused more loss of life because you got duff intel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by donna52522

Where would you stand TarJak, for our children, or for terrorism?....Would you protect children, or give them up?

I stand for my children and would not give them up. That doesn't mean I would choose to deliberately harm someone when there are other alternatives.

Torture doesn't work so why consider it when taking that route makes you no better than the terrorist you want to harm.

MH · 08-07-14, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Torture doesn't work so why consider it when taking that route makes you no better than the terrorist you want to harm.

Actually torture works and is used in cases where time is critical.

donna52522 · 08-07-14, 04:01 AM

That's sour sauce TarJak, it's not an answer, it's a poor excuse.

But look on the bright side, maybe next time you'll get it right

TarJak · 08-07-14, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

Actually torture works and is used in cases where time is critical.

That's interesting considering the lack of acceptance of that opinion by many intelligence services. And experts in the field:
http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar...ed=0CBkQgQMwAA

Quote:

United States Army field manual, explains that torture "is a poor technique that yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear."[4] Not only is torture ineffective at gathering reliable information, but it also increases the difficulty of gathering information from a source in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donna52522

That's sour sauce TarJak, it's not an answer, it's a poor excuse.

But look on the bright side, maybe next time you'll get it right

Therein lies the problem. If people select an action without exploring the alternatives they usually end up looking silly.

MH · 08-07-14, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

That's interesting considering the lack of acceptance of that opinion by many intelligence services. And experts in the field:
http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar...ed=0CBkQgQMwAA
.

Well.. When time is not an issue there may be other better way of extracting information.
More reliable…
In cases where time is critical you take chances.. see not all is black and wihite.
I'm quite sure mr Obama is somehow spinning the issue since it is political matter in USA.

TarJak · 08-07-14, 04:47 AM

But the "ticking time bomb" situation is a myth in real life and only exists in the minds of Hollywood scriptwriters.

Show us a real life case where this has actually happened.

MH · 08-07-14, 06:16 AM

No it is not myth.
There is legislation here regarding this.
In USA it may be matter of hollywood.

TarJak · 08-07-14, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

No it is not myth.

Real life examples please.

Laws can be based on theoretical situations.

MH · 08-07-14, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Real life examples please.

Laws can be based on theoretical situations.

I can't help you with specific examples but I think there should be some old material.
This used to be hot potato here as well when suicide bombers roamed back in 2000.

TarJak · 08-07-14, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

I can't help you with specific examples but I think there should be some old material.
This used to be hot potato here as well when suicide bombers roamed back in 2000.

So you have no actual evidence that these situations exist and where torture actually helped in one of these situations?

MH · 08-07-14, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

So you have no actual evidence that these situations exist and where torture actually helped in one of these situations?

No but maybe you will find somthing yourself on the web.

08-07-14, 03:03 AM	#33
donna52522 Lady Mariner Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 544 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	I would...If it meant saving innocent live, like our children. __________________

08-07-14, 03:14 AM	#34
donna52522 Lady Mariner Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 544 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	Where would you stand TarJak, for our children, or for terrorism?....Would you protect children, or give them up? __________________

08-07-14, 04:01 AM	#37
donna52522 Lady Mariner Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 544 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	That's sour sauce TarJak, it's not an answer, it's a poor excuse. But look on the bright side, maybe next time you'll get it right __________________

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08-07-14, 04:47 AM	#40
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	But the "ticking time bomb" situation is a myth in real life and only exists in the minds of Hollywood scriptwriters. Show us a real life case where this has actually happened.

08-07-14, 06:16 AM	#41
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	No it is not myth. There is legislation here regarding this. In USA it may be matter of hollywood.