Elections in Europe today

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by BossMark

Do you mind not using foul and abusive language on these forums please.

That call is unneeded. He didn't.

[Jimbuna]

Oh I simply love this thread

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by _dgn_

Some simple equations :

Portugal + a Socialist government => heavy problems for this country.

Cheers.

When? Possibly the last "socialist" government that we had was during the second half of the 90's (not counting the post revolution govs).
The last PS government was not socialist/centre-left wing government, it was in fact more liberal and right wing. Today we have a centre-right government and things are the same or worse.

Portugal-right wing military dictatorship=>heavy problems for the country.

Depends of who is observing. The Estado Novo was not a military dictatorship, it began like one, in a military coup but after 1933 it lost that "characteristic". And during the finals years, the Marcelismo period, things in general were not bad in terms of job, income, social care and social security (that was implemented during that years).

And of course many people now see that period has a good period and not today was many things are normally wrong here.

We were also a country at side Europe and we still are, so things here are also a bit different. A socialist government will be only in name and not in policy and do a liberal/right wing politics. The Communist party is still the third politics force... (and a few youngs still believe a soviet paradise...no comments) and so on.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Respenus

A hopeless optimist Skybird? Even after you've turned me around? Then, what was I a couple of years ago? A loony?

In all seriousness, I understand your argument and its underlying logic and I agree, we have to live within our means and we have to avoid common debts in the Eurozone, without having a proper, common state to support it. Since a snowball in Hell has a higher chance of survival than this prospect, I wouldn't count on it happening any time soon and if it did come to pass, there would still need to be internal discipline, as we see it in Switzerland for example.

Which does not make the Swiss immune to their surrounding fincial market. Their currency is under pressure and for their standards they needed to accept some remarkable invasive steps to safeguard the stability and solidity of the franken. But still the Franlken has dropped at least once below the limit in exchnage ratio to the Euro. Even a strong, solid currency and w healthy economy these days does not make you untouchable by the crisis all around anymore. The Swedish Reichsbank made a very solid and logical step some time ago, though. They just forbid trading US bonds, due to the immense debt burden that pulls the US down and devalues its financial means and tools.

At the very core of today'S problems is the fincial system'S attempt to make blind profit from trading with debts. In principle, debt trading should be forbidden and banned. No more bonds. This is at the very deepest centre heart of the troubles we are in, I am convinced.

As for Hollande and fiscal disciple, our beloved Spiegel has an article on the fact that Hollande will have to be a pragmatist in order to survive (nothing new on the Western front). As for the EIB, note that the majority of its capital is call-in capital, meaning that states can be called upon to fulfil their commitments, but if I remember correctly, this has yet to happen to the EIB. Contrary to most banks, it actually functions like one and it makes sure that its investments are sound and that credits are paid back. Thus states will only have to pay a small amount of the total increase in bank capital, but which, when used properly, can have major positive results for the economy. Of course, this will take years, so its not a panacea for the current ills. Plus, there's currently a Luxembourgian as president of the EIB and it is certain to remain in capable (read northern European) hands.

I assume you mean this piece: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-831671.html

It is hilarious, tragic and lethal how such small parties (FDP) that just weeks ago were skimming below the 2% marking nation-wide can unfold such a dramatic power influence in national politics.

Anyhow, the match is about buying some more time, or not. The ultimate outcome may be delayed or not, but will be changed little by elections and altering policies. Things went wrong for too many decades, have sunken too deep into present societies and penetrated into them on all levels, and have turned into too dominant a structural factor as if I have any idea anymore on how to solkve the mess, even more when pepople will vote anybody out of office who'se policies do hurt them.

I increaisngly wonder if a demcoiratic system really is the way to win back influence over a Europe in deep crisis. I also mwonder if basic demiocracy really is the functional thing - has any funciton at all, that is - to administrate the needs and decisions of a community embracing half a billion different people and three dozen different major cultures and several hundreds small local subcultures. It's all too big, too much, too many, my instinct tells me.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That call is unneeded. He didn't.

Some would disagree with that...

[STEED]

Originally Posted by BossMark

Do you mind not using foul and abusive language on these forums please.

Ask the boss to ban those words.

Originally Posted by Skybird

That call is unneeded. He didn't.

You wouldn't say that Sky if you lived over here under that woman'a years in power.

Originally Posted by Oberon

Some would disagree with that...

Most of North of Watford.

[STEED]

I hear Angela Merkel is throwing a wobbler.

No No No No...You can not to France & Greece.

Yea, rock the EU boat.

You wouldn't say that Sky if you lived over here under that woman'a years in power

Be fair, given his habit of making stuff up he would be applauding the efforts maggie pushed through to quell the militant arsenic miners from cornwall to ensure they could not dictate/negotiate their own working conditions.

Though to declare an interest I did bloody well out of Maggies asset stripping and tax payer funded free for alls.....but you poor buggers who are the citizens of her state did get thoroughly screwed.

[Onkel Neal]

Jon Stewart said it best at 4:00

[Jimbuna]

Not available via the link

[kranz]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Not available via the link

it requires teh pluginz for a proper display

[STEED]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Not available via the link

Did you see the message jim?


Get my headlines from CH4!

Don't send in the Red Coats!

Your asking for war.

[Jimbuna]

Rgr that