Your turn America - Page 3

nikimcbee · 01-06-12, 03:05 AM

So we'll all have smurfy weapons.

Platapus · 01-06-12, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

As long as were downsizing (again), i still say, lets yank all those cold war era bases we have dotted all over the damn place that are doing nothing but supporting local economies. Bring some of them back stateside to support our own local economies for a change.

I could agree with that.

If a country really wants our base there, we can talk terms.

Skybird · 01-06-12, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

You know what they call "lobbying" in Europe?

Bribery.

No, the official language calls it either "justice", "responsibility" or "solidarity".

In Brussel, insiders and observers say per member of the EU parliament there are 35-50 lobbyists.

So corruption it all is today, yes.

And a crime against the young generation expected to pay for and repair all this mess - or getting buried under it. It'S all snowballing, it's all a Ponzi scheme. Question is not whether it will collapse, but when.

Skybird · 01-06-12, 08:39 AM

I copy this over from another thread I started in ignorrance of this one:

American debt roughly equals the yearly GDP of the American economy, "white" debts (excluding hidden implicated costs from future debts that are already designed to arise from future pensions etc) mostly get fixed at a value beyond 15 trillion now. In other words: the US government and society runs on tic and not by its own savings and economic-financial self-maintenance. If the debts of the future that already are unavoidable from pensions becoming payed out for current employees get calculated into the formula, and I take the German example for such a calculation, these 15 trillions can be multiplied by a factor of roughly 3.5 .

It is in this light the announced plans for cutting the defence budget by just half a trillion over the next ten years must be seen. Army forces have grown from 482 thousand to 570 thousand in the past decade, and now shall be cut to 520 thousand and in the longer run probbaly to below 490 thousand. Asia gains more attention, probably at the cost of European employements. German media said the air force needs to expect the loss of several hundred manned aircraft, but I wonder if this vague hint is real or just got something lost in translation. The nuclear arsenal, still four times above what the latest treaties aim for, shall be more tailored and redcued, too, and the ability for cyberwarfare and drone warfare and operating by special forces should be increased, at the cost of conventionel forces.

I have read nothing about navy budget plans.

Health insurrance and pensions for vets are likely to be reduced sooner or later, too. Which is a shame when they risked their lives and lost their health.

This sounds all nice and well, but let'S face it: the size of the US military still is much much bigger than what the US could afford by its own wealth and economic power. This is countered by the question whether it is desirable to really reduce the US military to a state of conventionel global impotence, eventually.

It is a dilemma, and I have no answer to it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z4

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/06/op...n.html?_r=1&hp
__________________
The rest of the world lies as well. Do not believe it either.

Ducimus · 01-06-12, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicstix

The problem is those factories don't exist anymore...

.

It occurs to me if we had enough national pride and patriot ferver to instigate a campaign of "Buy American" amongst our own society, and follow through on it, we would put the hurt lock on china and never have to fire a shot. Our constant consumption of Chinese goods is what's propelling them to be the next world power, and us to be the declining one.

However getting our society united behind such an effort would require cooperation from all classes in all walks of life, including the fat cats. That level of cooperation will NEVER happen. Human greed and desire for profit is a far greater in this day and age of international corporations and globalism, then patriotism and loyalty to ones country.

Platapus · 01-06-12, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

It occurs to me if we had enough national pride and patriot ferver to instigate a campaign of "Buy American" amongst our own society, and follow through on it, we would put the hurt lock on china and never have to fire a shot. Our constant consumption of Chinese goods is what's propelling them to be the next world power, and us to be the declining one.

However getting our society united behind such an effort would require cooperation from all classes in all walks of life, including the fat cats. That level of cooperation will NEVER happen. Human greed and desire for profit is a far greater in this day and age of international corporations and globalism, then patriotism and loyalty to ones country.

But Buffy and Sean simply must have that latest trendy toy/outfit and mumsie does not want to pay American prices.

As a capitalist, I can understand that. The whole idea of capitalism is for the buyer to get the mostest for the leastest and for the seller to deliver the leastest for the mostest. Where they can reach an agreement is called successful free market.

What we need in the US is a truly cheap lower labour class. But socially that ain't happening any more.

Takeda Shingen · 01-06-12, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Sadly they are not going to cut overall spending. They are just going to spend it someplace else

. Sure, the military is bloated, but nobody wants their sacred cow cut.

Remember when they were taking the axe to the Department of Education? You were all about that. Now you're kicking and screaming over cuts to the Department of Defense. Sacred cows indeed.

TarJak · 01-06-12, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Remember when they were taking the axe to the Department of Education? You were all about that. Now you're kicking and screaming over cuts to the Department of Defense. Sacred cows indeed.

Moo?

nikimcbee · 01-07-12, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Moo?

Vishnu?

nikimcbee · 01-07-12, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Remember when they were taking the axe to the Department of Education? You were all about that. Now you're kicking and screaming over cuts to the Department of Defense. Sacred cows indeed.

No, just cutting the fluffy stuff.

Takeda Shingen · 01-07-12, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

No, just cutting the fluffy stuff.

Sure. Reading and writing is fluff now too, along with the arts and civil rights. You've got an interesting world view there, niki.

Blood_splat · 01-07-12, 10:44 AM

This country stopped dreaming. It is now quarterly reports and bottom lines.

Takeda Shingen · 01-07-12, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood_splat

This country stopped dreaming. It is now quarterly reports and bottom lines.

I would argue the opposite. This country is still dreaming. It is dreaming that it can afford these bloated defense budgets. It is dreaming that it can still afford to act in it's self-appointed role as the world's police force. It is dreaming that pet projects and sacred cows can be retained while the nation goes down the toilet. America is still dreaming, and it needs to wake up. Close the bases, bring the troops home, cut the budget.

nikimcbee · 01-07-12, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Sure. Reading and writing is fluff now too, along with the arts and civil rights. You've got an interesting world view there, niki.

How about you hold a bake sale then?

Takeda Shingen · 01-07-12, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

How about you hold a bake sale then?

You gonna bake for it, big guy? Some special Big Niki surprise?

01-06-12, 03:05 AM	#31
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	So we'll all have smurfy weapons. __________________

01-06-12, 08:39 AM	#34
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,816 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I copy this over from another thread I started in ignorrance of this one: American debt roughly equals the yearly GDP of the American economy, "white" debts (excluding hidden implicated costs from future debts that are already designed to arise from future pensions etc) mostly get fixed at a value beyond 15 trillion now. In other words: the US government and society runs on tic and not by its own savings and economic-financial self-maintenance. If the debts of the future that already are unavoidable from pensions becoming payed out for current employees get calculated into the formula, and I take the German example for such a calculation, these 15 trillions can be multiplied by a factor of roughly 3.5 . It is in this light the announced plans for cutting the defence budget by just half a trillion over the next ten years must be seen. Army forces have grown from 482 thousand to 570 thousand in the past decade, and now shall be cut to 520 thousand and in the longer run probbaly to below 490 thousand. Asia gains more attention, probably at the cost of European employements. German media said the air force needs to expect the loss of several hundred manned aircraft, but I wonder if this vague hint is real or just got something lost in translation. The nuclear arsenal, still four times above what the latest treaties aim for, shall be more tailored and redcued, too, and the ability for cyberwarfare and drone warfare and operating by special forces should be increased, at the cost of conventionel forces. I have read nothing about navy budget plans. Health insurrance and pensions for vets are likely to be reduced sooner or later, too. Which is a shame when they risked their lives and lost their health. This sounds all nice and well, but let'S face it: the size of the US military still is much much bigger than what the US could afford by its own wealth and economic power. This is countered by the question whether it is desirable to really reduce the US military to a state of conventionel global impotence, eventually. It is a dilemma, and I have no answer to it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z4 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/06/op...n.html?_r=1&hp __________________ The rest of the world lies as well. Do not believe it either. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

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01-07-12, 10:44 AM	#42
Blood_splat Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Beneath the waves Posts: 568 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	This country stopped dreaming. It is now quarterly reports and bottom lines.