Obama's Arab spring speech.

Israel is big enough militarily to handle it's neighbors, did quite well the last three rounds.

In two of its three last rounds it didn't do well at all, in one of those two it did terribly. Perhaps you refer to earlier rounds with its neighbours.

These three reasons simpyl are facts of Realpolitik. They define the vital, essential, non-negotiable, most existential security interests of Israel.

So essentialy the land isn't big enough and there are too many people.

The Syrians gambled, and lost, so they have to pay the price for the aggression, like Germany has lost former parts in the East that now belong to Poland, with most Germans not questioning that at all.

Ah of course, a peace treaty that Germany signed which formally settled a border issue. So what is needed is a peace treaty Which someone just suggested should be based on some lines on a map Which Skybird just said shouldn't be signed

[Takeda Shingen]

I am completely in favor of having Israel make it's own decisions without interference. To that end , I am in favor of cutting military and financial aid to Israel. However, until we do so, we get a say in what they do with our money and materiel. I agree with the President's stance on this issue.

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I am completely in favor of having Israel make it's own decisions without interference. To that end , I am in favor of cutting military and financial aid to Israel. However, until we do so, we get a say in what they do with our money and materiel. I agree with the President's stance on this issue.

I wonder if you'll still agree when the Arabs finally achieve their repeatedly stated aim of driving the Jews into the sea.

[yubba]

here's a good read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

[August]

Originally Posted by yubba

here's a good read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

You can't trust Wikipedia for anything that is remotely controversial.

[Tchocky]

I find for things like that wiki serves very well as a jumping off point for references

[Bakkels]

I've got to say that Skybirds post back a page makes a lot of sense; just handing out land to a certain group (land that is already inhabited by another group) is a ridiculous thing to do in the first place.

And the motive for giving Israel to the Jews after the war were also questionable. It was a lot easier to give them a piece of land to live in, than to let them back in European societies, and having to give them back their positions, possessions, companies etc. After the terrible events they endured in the war, we like to think they were welcomed back with open arms, but that unfortunately is not true at all.

I can also understand the Palestines who just got screwed over. There's no denying that. But as long as they continue to quarrel even among themselves and continue with the suicide bombings, there's not really much use in negotiating with them either.

And like Skybird said, there are now generations of Jewish Israeli people that were born and raised there, so just giving Israel back to the Palestines would be an enormous injustice too. Two wrongs don't make a right. We like to think there's a solution to each problem, but we got to accept that in some cases, there is no one true and simple solution. I'm really pessimistic about the situation there.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by August

I wonder if you'll still agree when the Arabs finally achieve their repeatedly stated aim of driving the Jews into the sea.

Israel's problems are it's own. I am tired of footing the bill while making their enemies into our own. The United States has enough trouble. I say cut them loose.

Funny how any statement even remotely critical of the Israeli government is immediately reduced to a discussion of Semetics.