Can the United States pay the money back?

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

If you covered your entire roof, back yard, front yard, and your pets with solar voltaic cells. Turned your airconditioner off, unplugged your refrigerator, throw away your clothes dryer and give up hot water you might come close to your 'estimate'.

But that inital investment to be able to accomplish such a thing is well.. alot.

No Solar voltaic is not at that kind of efficacy yet.

I hear a lot of fanciful futuristic arguments. Fission, Solar Power, and so on. I believve if it could be done it would be done.... and for profit.

What are you talking about? AC=Air conditioner.. You don't need THAT many cells to cut half of its use. Especially a modern one.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Thomen

And who is goingto pay for the panels, the installation and all that other stuff that is needed? Those unfortunately do not come for free. I would love to reduce my power bill with cells, but rightnow, the incentivce is not very good considering how long it takes til they basically paid for themselves.

That will have to come with time. Right now the tech that is being made with is extremely expensive. The upcoming tech has solar tech being printed rather than traditional methods.

As for paying for them. Even for traditional panels many say if there is a substantial tax deduction or other benefit for getting them they will. Also note what I said earlier about home cooling. That is the time the grid is taxed the most and when companies have to pay for unpretty amounts from power. They will be very happy to help make things even sweeter for a mass rollout because it will mean less stress for them during peak hours.

Because you just set these things to get max use during peak hours and tied through a box into the AC rather than storage. They will be cheap to install.


Now is it a end all solution? Heck no because solar is not going to provide the power needed for massive growth. Yet it is a good investment that has results soon rather than a decade later with other forms of energy.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

What are you talking about? AC=Air conditioner.. You don't need THAT many cells to cut half of its use. Especially a modern one.

My friend I work in this industry. In fact I am a professional.

I know how much current an air conditioner can draw, even a one with an extremly high seer.

Your solar cell sysem might be enough to run that AC through the night depending on where you live. But thats about it. Maybe a few light bulbs too in fact. Dont even think about roasting a chicken in a electric range that would sap the batterys before the chicken was done.

But thats about it.

Not to mention the banks of batteries and inverter system. Not cheap. The heavy metals involved is enough to give a tree hugger a cold sweat.

Im telling you solar to electric is just not there yet.

I see lots of 'cute' applications for solar electric systems. Lighted bus stops. School crossing signs etc. Ive even seen billboards with solar powered lighting systems (they quite often fail in the first year). Given the right conditions these novelties work quite well.

We installed a lighted pedestrian crossing system at a local campus here. Solar powered, led lamps for the 'warning' lights.

It failed miserabaly. Just too much traffic day and night the system could not keep up. We ended up running a circuit to a battery charger.

No solar to electric on a commercial scale is pie in the sky at this time.

[bookworm_020]

Maybe they would settle for a cents in the dollar repayment????

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

Maybe they would settle for a cents in the dollar repayment????

Perhaps shaving a small portion of your bill is possible but the up front costs are prohibitave. Furthermore there are ongoing costs. Those batterys arent cheap and they dont last forever. One good lightining strike can put you back to square one also. Yes there are ways to guard against that as well but more costs and there not gaurenteed, lightning finds a way sometimes.

If you really wish to save money / energy with solar again water heating is the best route at this time. Its passive, its reletively inexpensive, it works, and very rarely fails which is more than can be said about photo voltaic.

There are also systems that can use some of this heated water pumped through tubing in your floor for a nice space warming system. But that has to be designed from the ground up.

Forget trying to run an electric strip heat on a pv system... out of the question.

[August]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Perhaps shaving a small portion of your bill is possible but the up front costs are prohibitave. Furthermore there are ongoing costs. Those batterys arent cheap and they dont last forever. One good lightining strike can put you back to square one also. Yes there are ways to guard against that as well but more costs and there not gaurenteed, lightning finds a way sometimes.

If you really wish to save money / energy with solar again water heating is the best route at this time. Its passive, its reletively inexpensive, it works, and very rarely fails which is more than can be said about photo voltaic.

There are also systems that can use some of this heated water pumped through tubing in your floor for a nice space warming system. But that has to be designed from the ground up.

Forget trying to run an electric strip heat on a pv system... out of the question.

Still when I look at the progress that solar power has made in the past 30 years i'm encouraged about the future.

The wife and I hope to use solar in the retirement home we'll be building 20 years from now.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by August

Still when I look at the progress that solar power has made in the past 30 years i'm encouraged about the future.

The wife and I hope to use solar in the retirement home we'll be building 20 years from now.

Indeed some signifigant advances have been made but the two main stumbling blocks as of right now are the pv cells themselves just dont produce enough current and the storage systems. Who knows maybe someone will have a break through tommorow.

In the meantime when you get ready to plan that home I know a good engineer

[SUBMAN1]

I'd opt more for wind power. Seems the be the only thing you can install that actually generates a decent clip, but only on a windy day.

Solar - It will be a while before that is any use other than cutting down on your bill. I keep seeing all these breakthroughs on it, except when it comes down to manufacturing these breakthroughs. It can't be done cheaply enough yet to make it into your home.

-S

[Letum]

As it is, photo voltics are expensive, inefficant, degrade in power output
After a few years and need replacing after ~20 years.

Further more, there production is causing serious environmental problems. esp. in China.

Not a way to make or save money.
Great for calculators or street signs.

The thing that is missed is how this kind of spending drives down the economies of all nations. When the US consumer is paying for debt little disposable income is available to buy products and services from other nations, which in turn disrupts their economies. Its a pernicious circle.

[August]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

In the meantime when you get ready to plan that home I know a good engineer

Engineer, you mean like the guy who drives the train?


Sorry I can never pass up that joke.

Speaking of engineering. If I were to set up a solar battery powered system up at our cabin in Maine what would i need?

I'm figuring powering 4ea 75 watt bulbs (mostly during night time hours) for 3-5 days. Solar panel efficiency isn't a big issue since we usually go 30 days between visits

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by August

Engineer, you mean like the guy who drives the train?


Sorry I can never pass up that joke.

Speaking of engineering. If I were to set up a solar battery powered system up at our cabin in Maine what would i need?

I'm figuring powering 4ea 75 watt bulbs (mostly during night time hours) for 3-5 days. Solar panel efficiency isn't a big issue since we usually go 30 days between visits

Dont really want to derail the thread any further so Ill pm you some links. For just a few lights (consider using compact fluorescents btw) you wont need all that much.

[Skybird]

Can the United States pay the money back?

Judging from the media coverage as well as past debates in this forum, the more interesting question is who in the US would even wish to do so. Living on tick seems to be taken as a God-given right by the US.

In the past 500 years, the vast majority of European powers had to reboot at one time or the other, due to total state bancruptcy that was the consequence of spending more than one could afford, and especially excessive military spending.

What is strange is that America could learn from these examples - but doesn't.

But with that strange habit it is not alone. Others repeat the very same economical and financial mistakes of the past as well. But no other causes so high waves by doing so.

They say there is something called evolution. more and more often, when looking at man's history, I doubt that. It always seems to be the same old stories that meanwhile got forgotten - and thus get repeated while assuming they are new.