Obama campaign rep STUMPED on legislative accomplishments

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

Precisely. And this is the man who wants to bring CHANGE to the US? Sorry, I don't see it happening in Obama.

Well if he does win the presidency that alone is change and we are talking of HUGE change - this is not like the first catholic elected, this is a BLACK man leading the world. The dynamics are mind boggling. I would bet that there would not be a responsible government in the world who does not, on the night he is (if) elected does not call a meeting of their cabinet to plan ahead.

But to get back to the point, the question is not whether he has done anything "earth shattering" as a senator, but HOW does his tenure stack up against his adversary. That is the question.

[DeepIron]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

Well if he does win the presidency that alone is change and we are talking of HUGE change - this is not like the first catholic elected, this is a BLACK man leading the world. The dynamics are mind boggling. I would bet that there would not be a responsible government in the world who does not, on the night he is (if) elected does not call a meeting of their cabinet to plan ahead.

But to get back to the point, the question is not whether he has done anything "earth shattering" as a senator, but HOW does his tenure stack up against his adversary. That is the question.

We can apply the logic to electing a woman as President. His tenure? The guy is a first term Senator, hardly tenured, and has not proven his ability to lead by any stretch of the imagination or voting record. He is a follower, as well as should be expected for someone new to the "Washington Grinder". Want to be re-elected? Don't do anything rash old son... (like introducing legislature inclined to instigate change!).

I consider Obama's campaign to be Ad captandum vulgus, an effort to appeal to the crowd, or mob, as they were known in ancient Rome. The US public is sick of war, health care issues and illegal immigration, to name but a few, and they want change. Obama promises exactly what the US public wants to hear. He is full of promises, as are most political candidates. I just consider his inexperience as a Senator as more of an indictment against him. No one "has his back" nor does he have the political "pull" to carry out his promises.

[Von Tonner]

We can apply the logic to electing a woman as President. His tenure? The guy is a first term Senator, hardly tenured, and has not proven his ability to lead by any stretch of the imagination or voting record. He is a follower, as well as should be expected for someone new to the "Washington Grinder". Want to be re-elected? Don't do anything rash old son... (like introducing legislature inclined to instigate change!).

I consider Obama's campaign to be Ad captandum vulgus, an effort to appeal to the crowd, or mob, as they were known in ancient Rome. The US public is sick of war, health care issues and illegal immigration, to name but a few, and they want change. Obama promises exactly what the US public wants to hear. He is full of promises, as are most political candidates. I just consider his inexperience as a Senator as more of an indictment against him. No one "has his back" nor does he have the political "pull" to carry out his promises.[/quote]

That is most interesting DeepIron 'No one has his back'. People lose sight that the guy (or woman) in the WH is surrounded by key advisors. They (the President) do not go into a meeting and unilaterally declare "We are going to invade Iraq". Who Obama surrounds himself if he wins the WH is an important question and will do much to define his presidency. And, depending who they are, allay fears as to his lack of experience.

I will say though, electing a woman as president will not have the same resonance as electing a black man. Why?, the First world has been there already. This will be the first time ever a black man has led a first world country - and the only super power standing.

[SUBMAN1]

That is most interesting DeepIron 'No one has his back'. People lose sight that the guy (or woman) in the WH is surrounded by key advisors. They (the President) do not go into a meeting and unilaterally declare "We are going to invade Iraq". Who Obama surrounds himself if he wins the WH is an important question and will do much to define his presidency. And, depending who they are, allay fears as to his lack of experience.

I will say though, electing a woman as president will not have the same resonance as electing a black man. Why?, the First world has been there already. This will be the first time ever a black man has led a first world country - and the only super power standing.

A big whop-de-do. Electing a president because of his color or race IS A REALLY BAD IDEA!!!! How about electing him based on his political background and standing? That is a much better one. A novel concept!

I'm getting more scared at our population the more I read.

-S

[DeepIron]

That is most interesting DeepIron 'No one has his back'. People lose sight that the guy (or woman) in the WH is surrounded by key advisors. They (the President) do not go into a meeting and unilaterally declare "We are going to invade Iraq". Who Obama surrounds himself if he wins the WH is an important question and will do much to define his presidency. And, depending who they are, allay fears as to his lack of experience.

I think, an unfortunate side-effect as it were, of being a "successful" (leaving the interpretation of successful open) politician, is that he or she, makes concessions and demands based somewhat on "cronyism". How do you know who your friends, and adversaries for that matter, are? You encounter them. You work with them. You support or oppose them. You make deals and garner IOUs. In short, you learn about those with which you will work and this not something done or learned in Washington DC in less than one term as a Senator! Yes, the President certainly has he/her advisors, but that is an after-effect of the election. And who would he choose for his cabinet and advisors? Let alone a Vice-President?

Who, then, does Obama have "in his corner". Kennedy has endored him, so what. Ted Kennedy is an anachronism that carries far more "sentimental" value than political weight. Oprah? Probably more important than Kennedy... The Governor of Washington State? Who cares? Ben Nelson, Senator from Nebraska. When was the lst time you heard Nebraska mentioned prominently in a political venue? Continuum ad naseum...

In short, I simply don't beleive Obama has "paid his dues" nor does he know "his butt from a hole in the ground" politically. Perhaps after a few more terms, if/when the voters of his own constituency deem him successful enough to represent THEM, would I start to consider his rhetoric and probability for success.

As for a woman, I find the synergy that could exist between Hilliary Clinton, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and the other female members of the House and Senate to be more intriguing. Though I'm not in any way ready to support any presidential hopeful quite yet.

[Elder-Pirate]

"CHANGE" Yeah if he is elected I guarantee there will be a "change". There's going to be an awful lot of people both sides of the fence that will be very disappointed if this does happen.

[StarFox]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

I will say though, electing a woman as president will not have the same resonance as electing a black man. Why?, the First world has been there already. This will be the first time ever a black man has led a first world country - and the only super power standing.

I believe it will be, no matter who wins the Primary, a Very hard concept for many American's. The first time is always a *****, plain and simple. I personaly believe that anyone can be President, as long as they follow the qualifications:

Originally Posted by US Constitution

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951
No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

Does it say anywhere about Political Experience? No, now that does not mean Bubba from some unknown american backcrounty should be elected to run, But Obama is not stupid, He has some Idea of what he is doing, and as it was stated farther up the thread, who surronds him is just as important. I say give the man a chance. And if he turns out to be a complete load of crap, its only 4 years. I suffered Bush for 7 years now, and it cant possiably be worse then that.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by StarFox

... I suffered Bush for 7 years now, and it cant possiably be worse then that.

You so have no idea, that it is funny. Bush has been very mild to what could be possible with a pres of the US of A.

One very scary statement.

-S

[StarFox]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You so have no idea, that it is funny. Bush has been very mild to what could be possible with a pres of the US of A.

One very scary statement.

-S

What, you think Obama would go out of his way to Destory the planet? Raise CO2 production (Bush in the first year repealed Laws against Carbon Monixide limits), Nuke anyone who objects him, issue Marshal Law, Lie about WMDs to start a War, then switch the reason from WMDs to Terrorism?

Honestly, I think people are scared of a Black Man from the South Side of Chicago. I owe part of my Youth to Chicago. From everything I have read, I trust him. I will do my best to hold by my word though, If McCain gets elected, that scares me more. I will high tail it to Canada, or Mexico. I cannot stand another 4 Years of this country being run by Rich guys doing nothing except helping their corprate friends.

[August]

Originally Posted by StarFox

[If McCain gets elected, that scares me more. I will high tail it to Canada, or Mexico. I cannot stand another 4 Years of this country being run by Rich guys doing nothing except helping their corprate friends.

So you'd go to MEXICO to get away from corruption?

[StarFox]

Im starting to become a fan of "Anywhere but here" when things continue to get worse

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You so have no idea, that it is funny. Bush has been very mild to what could be possible with a pres of the US of A.

One very scary statement.

-S

Or one very scaremongering statement of pure speculation on your behalf.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

He's a first term Senator. He knows NOTHING! He has a BIG idealistic streak, wants to "change things", and has done NOTHING!

Charisma and Oprah are all he has. And sadly, in this disaffected, TV addicted, "pretty boy wins all" society of ours, it'll be all he needs...

Maybe he'll pull out all stops and get Oprah for VP. On the serious side of things, if Obama is the nominee then McCain is a slam dunk for president.

[Tchocky]

I know that a Kos URL can be an immediate turn-off, but here's a fairly even-handed look at Hillary and Barack's legislative records. A good read.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2.../807/36/458633

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

On the serious side of things, if Obama is the nominee then McCain is a slam dunk for president.

Would that be the same type of "slam dunk" like Nukes in Iraq?

just askin