What would you prefer, when a game is published ?

[bishop]

Originally Posted by ACSoft

I don't really understand what conclusion do you mean ?

That the game was shamefully buggy & unfinised or something else ?

ACS

Ok, I'll make it simple... have you bought and played the game yourself?

[RedHammer]

AC, the moderators are not hunting you, relax, but they might find it alittle annoying that you keep saying they are hunting you. I would.
Whatever other topics you have written in the past, which I have not read. May I say it so far seems like you have written nothing wrong in this one, YET. So please keep it that way (No fingers pointed.), you created a interesting subject of discussion here, and I am engaged in it, so I don`t mean any harm, I only wish you to not say anything you have not thought over very well. Because that might lead to hammering and bashing and thread being closed. Thanks alot in advance.

On-Topic again:
Even after the patch, there are still a few TDC bugs left (No CTD`s thank god, but the Speed bug is really annoying me, cant get a good solution.) If they are fixed there is a winner amongst Pacific ww2 sub sims here! But, if John`s opinion may very well turn out to be correct, and SH projects are cancelled.. That would be sad..

My personal thought, I hope they will continue. After all, to me, SH series is still the best sub sims available, and If they just fix the Speed Chronometer, and maybe a couple of visual patches (I do feel perfectly fine with 1024x768 resolution, but other`s here do not share that opinion.), Put in the Akagi and Narwhal in a patch, And perhaps a few SDK kits for sh3 and sh4. My thought is they shouldnt feel bad, They then fixed the problems which are obvious. And can sit down and relax, and have a beer on my tab, because then they have made a very very very good Sub sim.

Some off-topic to loosening up the tention here: I was 10 years old when I started playing Silent Hunter 1 with all commander packs, at first I didnt even know about the torpedoes :P I just surfaced with invincible "cheat" and blasted them with my powerful deck gun!! I remember using the Mission Editor to put in loads of Saipan`s and just blast them away with my Deck gun Also I used to shoot down enemy planes with deck gun but that recuired alot of luck and testing :P I started looking for other means to dispatch of my terrible foe, and at the side of the periscope, I found many red buttons with numbers on them... I pointed the periscope towards a enemy Merchant while my ww2 fanatic buddy was there. We saw a red triangle below the merchant... I just accidentally clicked the first red button.. and heard: FIRING ONE!!! and we see a white strip going towards the enemy ship.. my buddy asks: Uhm tore whats that? KAAABLAAAAM!
Enemy ship destroyed sir! Me and my buddy just totally shocked while looking at whats left of the ship is sinking That`s when I discovered Torpedoes '


S! to all!

Your friend in the Pacific

RH

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by bishop

Ok, I'll make it simple... have you bought and played the game yourself?

I had the beta-version.

ACS

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by John Channing

Here are two quotes by you in this very thread.

"To my view, the policy Subsim apply now, which is in fact like many other similar forums, just help publishers to apply more and more this disrespectful attitude."

"Maybe Subsim think that to be severe toward such kind of game will be contra-productive. That it will not help to change the situation. Better to accept and just play the role of "customer-beta-tester"

And here is a quote from me in this thread.

"There is no policy at Subsim that we take a stance either way on any issues."

In this and other threads you have in some cases implied and others flat out stated that Subsim.com has a policy about supporting substandard merchandise and trying to prevent open discussion. We have no such policy. If you have read the FAQ you should now be aware of that.

It is my personal belief, based on discussions with people at Ubisoft and several other developers over the years (people like Carl Norman, Gilman Louie, Smut Martin, Matt Wagner and many others) that if the community turns against a title too early then it will affect sales and future development.

My belief is based on conversations with the leading people in the industry... people who know what they are talking about.

Upon what are your beliefs based?

JCC

OK, now I think I have understood, Subsim dont take a stance either way on any issues, the moderators and the owner, when they write here, express their personnal opinion.

And to answer your question, my beliefs are based on common sense and 60 years of experience in the life.

And now, it is my turn to tell you, please stop. I am not an idiot, I can read your real intentions between your lines and I don't like this.

ACS

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by Hitman

@ACSoft:

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

You seem to me a true admiror of Caton (The Old) :hmm:

Do you think I think "Delenda circences est" ?

The answer is no.

ACS

[bishop]

Originally Posted by ACSoft

I had the beta-version.

ACS

I'll take that as a 'no' then...

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by bishop

I'll take that as a 'no' then...

Take it like you want.

The fact is that the beta I have tested was maybe even better than the final version (didn't had some of the bugs mentioned).

Now, even if I wouldn't had the occasion to play with the game, my interventions would remain totally legitime. I have never commented any particular bugs or particular problems. All my interventions only denounce the true scandal, to my view, of publishing a game in this state. Something which is quite obvious, just by reading this forum.

Secondly, I have expressed my opinion that I thing it is wrong to forgive all this, because I think this will not produce the expected result.

ACS

[bishop]

Originally Posted by ACSoft

The fact is that the beta I have tested was maybe even better than the final version (didn't had some of the bugs mentioned).

Was there a publicly available beta of the game prior to the release, or were you an official tester for the developer?

[ijozic]

This poll asks a useless question, IMHO. You might as well have asked "Would you prefer to live in a perfect world?" Of course everyone will answer 'yes' but that's not the situation we have at hands. You should focus on changing that. Do you think that not buying this game will give the right message to some top manager at Ubi? I don't think so. He will just conclude that investing in simulation games is stupid and fire the person responsible for working on it and give more money to the FPS/sports/etc camp.

Yes, I would also prefer a bug-free game but it seems that games have became so complex and expensive that the development is constantly racing the time-constraints (provided by financial constraints) just to implement the requirements and do as much testing as possible. Having said that, I don't see anything generally broken with this sim.

Now, I wouldn't defend a sim just because it is a sim (and the simulations are on the edge of extinction, it seems), but I don't see any point in bashing a clearly well-produced game just because there are some bugs which will be ironed out with patching. AA is a different issue, yes, but I don't see it as a showstopper. This is a sim, after all.

[Sailor Steve]

I can't answer to the game itself, because I haven't played it yet.

While it has been stated many times that not only are legitimate complaints welcome, but it has been shown that the devs are trying to fix everything they can and it has also been explained why patches are needed so soon after the initial release.

As to the poll itself, it's like asking "Which would you prefer to eat":

1) Ice Cream
2) Glass

The only possible answer is obvious, and the question is not only loaded but serves no real purpose other to set up a straw man so you can knock him down again.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I can't answer to the game itself, because I haven't played it yet.

While it has been stated many times that not only are legitimate complaints welcome, but it has been shown that the devs are trying to fix everything they can and it has also been explained why patches are needed so soon after the initial release.

As to the poll itself, it's like asking "Which would you prefer to eat":

1) Ice Cream
2) Glass

The only possible answer is obvious, and the question is not only loaded but serves no real purpose other to set up a straw man so you can knock him down again.

Can I have my ice cream in a glass?

JCC

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I can't answer to the game itself, because I haven't played it yet.

While it has been stated many times that not only are legitimate complaints welcome, but it has been shown that the devs are trying to fix everything they can and it has also been explained why patches are needed so soon after the initial release.

As to the poll itself, it's like asking "Which would you prefer to eat":

1) Ice Cream
2) Glass

The only possible answer is obvious, and the question is not only loaded but serves no real purpose other to set up a straw man so you can knock him down again.

Yes, the answer is obvious and I wanted this !

This was to show the amazing contradiction many peoples have, even in this thread ! They want to start with a better game, but they forgive all and are totally fatalist about the situation !

Game are complex, etc..., etc... OK we all know these arguments, but is this a reason to accept to be forced to be a "customer-beta-tester". To my view, certainly not. Moreover, what is SH4, a new game developed from scratch ? Absolutely not. It is SH3 with modifications. To my view, this made the situation that users are actually living even less forgivable.

Somebody said I want perfection. This isn't true. I admit that first edition of a game, will probably always have bugs. But attention, not obvious bugs that any player discover after 5 minutes of playing, not parts that are obviously unfinished. Bugs which only some unfortunate users have, because of their particular Hardware/software configurations. I am even ready to accept a bug into the logic of play, but only if it is in a very particular situation which obviously escaped the tests.

Again and again, YOU customers can change that. So, please, be consequent with your wills and act in the right direction.

One more word. I think personnaly that the debate is done now. I was able to express an opinion which was obviously "swimming against the stream", without to be to much agressed and peoples not sharing my point of view also express their views widely. We even spoke latin !!!

This mean Subsim is really a smart community and I thank-you all for this. But if you don't mind, I propose to the moderator to lock this thread now.

For those who prefer to be SH4 "customer-beta-tester" have good tests.

For those who prefer to wait and enjoy SHIII, with or without mods, good hunting !

ACS

[AJ!]

To be honist This is a hard topic..... I never had any problem with Vanilla SH3 and was happy with it. While i am enjoying SH4, i do see it has an awful lot of bugs and is far from a complete game

While i would rather get back to talking about the positives about this game i do have to say that SH4s release was a complete failure.... Ubi had so many different versions of the game and so many different release dates that no one could follow the progress. The game has come out early almost everywhere (got my CE one day early) and many places (Canada) havnt got what was promised.

It is easy to see they were under time constraints.... With all the glitches and the absolutly pathetic intro..... I just hope we get all this fixed within the next couple weeks