SH4 Sub. Vs Sub.

[Sailor Steve]

No, nothing in the story bothered me at all; in fact, I thought it was great. What bothered me was that you seemed to claim it as a justification for the call for sub-to-sub combat, so I thought it might be real.

[GV_Darkata]

[GV_Darkata]

[bigboywooly]

Sub V Sub eh

P61518.4.43Torpedoed and sunk off West Africa by German U-123.

P615 ex-Turkish - Uluc Ali Reis - Uluc Ali Reis was being built for Turkey at start of war. Decided to complete and retain in RN. Similar to British S Class. Completed in April 42. Co-star of the film "We Dive at Dawn", with P614 (last digit of pennant number painted over). Escorted convoy PQ17 to Murmansk 1942. Left Freetown, Liberia, 17 April 43 bound for Takoradi under escort from the minesweeper MM107. During the night submarine and escort lost contact and on the morning of the 18th the minesweeper sighted what was thought to be a torpedo track, pass from port to starboard. Contact was gained with P615 and as there was no evidence of a U-boat in the area the torpedo track was put down to a porpoise. P615 and MM107 regained visual contact and the minesweeper took station 300 yards off the submarine’s starboard quarter. At 0950 the minesweeper sighted the merchant vessel Empire Bruce and whilst signalling the ship, noticed that P615 was also signalling. A few minutes later the submarine was seen to explode and sink. Observers suggest that the submarine had been hit on her starboard side by a torpedo although no torpedo track had been seen. She had been hit by a torpedo fired from German Type IXb U-boat U-123. See a personal recollection. (The U-123 had been one of the most successful of all submarines in the war, sinking well over 220,000 tons of shipping. It was later taken over by the French as Blaison and served as until 1959).

Parthian ( BR )

Known as 'Peanut' - this class had identity letters on the tower (Parthian being 'PN' - PeaNut.). 20-Jun-40 sank Italian S/M Diamante off Tobruk. Landed an agent off Crete 20 July 1940. Sank Carlo Martinolich, 4,200 tons, off Cape Spartivento, Calabria, 31 Dec 40. 25-Jun-41 sank Vichy French S/M Souffleur during British/Free French campaign to occupy Lebanon and Syria. Adopted by Boston, Lincs 1942. Refitted in USA end of 41 to March 42. 1942-43 back in Med. Supply runs to Malta in July, October and November 42, transporting aviation fuel and ammunition. To gain space, one battery was removed and no spare torpedoes were carried. Sank several caiques in the Aegean May/June 43 (Lt. St. John). (Lt C.A. Pardoe RNR) Presumed mined in Adriatic July/August 1943, having sailed from Malta on 22-July for patrol west of Greece and southern Adriatic

Triad ( BR )

(R.D.C.P. Jonas DSC, Cdr. E.R.J. Oddie DSC, Lt Cdr George S Salt DSC), 14-Oct-39 to 15-Nov-39, First uneventful patrol. 18-Nov-39 to 4-Dec-39 - On second patrol off The Naze, Norway, damaged a hydroplane shaft and had to be towed to Stavanger for repairs. Only 48 hours was allowed in the (then) neutral port but the work was carried out within the time and she returned to Rosyth. 16-Dec-39 to 28-Mar-40. Carried out 4 uneventful patrols in North Sea. 8-20 April 1940. Patrol area off the entrance to Oslo Fjord, during which, on the 11th, she sank the merchant ship Ionia 3,012 tons in the Skagerrak, and on the 20th she sank a second ship of 4,400 tons. 27-Jun40 to 13-Jul-40. Attacked a suspected 'Q' ship, a Swedish steamer and was counter-attacked. 27-Jul to 4-Aug-40. On the way home, on 3 Aug, attacked a U-boat, the Type VIIb U-46, with gunfire without success, neither boat was able to attack the other with torpedoes. 29-Aug to 6-Sep-40. After a short refit at Dundee, joined 1st SM Flotilla at Gibraltar. 11-Sep to 2-Oct-40. Patrol area, north Tyrrhenian Sea. 9-Oct to 20-Oct-40. This patrol, which was to be her last, was off the coast of Libya and she was then to proceed to Alexandria. (Possibly) Became the first 'T' class sunk in Med 38'16N-17'37E - 'overdue, presumed lost'. Recent research suggests Triad was sunk by the gunfire of Italian Balilla-class submarine Enrico Toti on the 15th October, rather than Rainbow as was believed for many years. It also suggests her patrol area was off the coast of Calabria in the Ionian Sea and not Libya.

Ultimatum ( BR )

Lt P.R.H. Harrison DSO DSC. 10th Flotilla, Malta. Sank Italian s/m Ammiraglio Enrico Millo off Cape Stilo, Calabria, Ionian Sea, 14-Mar-1942. Operations Harpoon/Vigorous, off Taranto, June 42. Attacked a U-boat - probably the U-77, on 24 June 42 with 4 torpedoes at very long range (7000 yds) and claimed a possible hit but this was probably a torpedo hitting the sea bed. Her position was north of Tobruk (34°20N 24°09E). For many years was credited with the sinking of German Type VIIC submarine U-431 on 30 October 1943. However, cross-referencing records has shown that the attack was on the Type VIIB U-73, but had caused no damage.

And of course Upholder ( BR )

Lt Cdr Malcolm David Wanklyn VC, DSO DSC RN. Most successful of all British submarines. Some More Details. 10th Flotilla, Malta. 25 patrols. 24-May-41 attacked a strongly escorted troop convoy off the coast of Sicily, sinking 18,000-ton liner Conte Rosso. Sank Tembien 27/2/42 400+ POWs lost. Wanklyn was awarded the Victoria Cross for this and previous actions. 18-Sep-41, sinks the 19,500-ton transports Neptunia and Oceania, making for Tripoli. 9 Nov 41, sank the Italian destroyer Libeccio. Sunk Italian s/m Saint Bon north of Sicily 5-Jan-42. Sunk Italian s/m Tricheco off Brindisi, southern Adriatic, 18-Mar-42. Sunk, in all, 2 destroyers, 3 submarines, 3 transports, 10 supply ships, 2 tankers, 1 trawler, totalling 128,353 tons. (Records according to 'Periscope Patrol' by John Frayn Turner

No doubt if I looked at every British sub on this site I could find more

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/ww2sm2.html

[Threadfin]

Originally Posted by edjcox

This was a totally fictional writeup....

Some of you take this "Game" far to seriously for your own health.....

What are you on about? Only two of us responded and both of us surmised you had made it up. And in case you were claiming it was an actual event we were asking for a source.

I kind of took some of this from one of my Sub books.

Which book is that?

Did the drunk skipper piss you off?? Just a theatric element to elicit emotion.. Must have worked..

I think the only one pissed in this thread is your fictional skipper.

[CCIP]

Forget the historical part of it! I think there are much better ways of enjoying a good time in multiplayer than trying to kill invisible targets with clumsy weapons not designed for the purpose. It's sort of like what I did for a bit with Battlefield games for a bit, trying to shoot down planes with artillery guns and grenade launchers. Sure it might seem neat for its novelty, but ultimately it either becomes a stupidly inefficient excercise that adds nothing to the experience. Or you cheat and turn it into some strange fetish of killing lotsa subs in a way they never should have been... When clearly there are far more vital parts of the gameplay to invest the effort in.

SHIV's convoy command mode, meanwhile, I more than welcome with open arms. I predict that, provided we get past any teething troubles, it will be far, far better and more appropriate than DC vs SH2 could ever dream of being.

[GV_Darkata]

ok CCip, you prefer to play vs. IA (intelligenza artificial ) aerei,dd, ecc. ecc.
my prefer to play vs. UMAN intelligent.

bye bye GV_Darkata (secondo a nessuno)

alcuni di voi nel gioco cercano la realta' ma dove stà.. è solo un gioco e basta,
alcuni non giocano vs altri sub. perchè nella storia non è mai successo uno scontro tra sub. (che poi non è vero ) e quindi non è reale, a me mi fate solo ridere.
ciao

ditemi che piacere provate a silurare una petroliera che è praticamente ferma e non ha la possibilita di difendersi, o combattere contro dei DD che quando gli lanci un siluro neanche si scostano per evitarlo questo è reale???????????
bye bye scusate se ho scritto in italiano traducete voi

[CCIP]

But I don't. I just prefer to play against UMAN with a right weapon. That's why I think the escort command mode for SHIV will be great.

[GV_Darkata]

[Kumando]

Wake up italian dude, sub vs sub underwater in ww2 isnt realistic thats not what they did there wasnt technologie avaible for that if it happened it was pure luck so farfanculo cabroni.

[badhat17]

Originally Posted by _Seth_

I hate to arrest you, mate, but the uboat that was sunk was an ViiC, and it happend outside of Norway...
The V-class was british, but the crew was Norwegian.

From uboat.net:

U-974

Type

VIIC

Laid down 26 Jun, 1942 Blohm & Voss, Hamburg Commissioned 22 Apr, 1943 Oblt. Joachim ZaubitzerCommanders 22 Apr, 1943 - 8 Nov, 1943 Joachim Zaubitzer9 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 Heinz Wolff Career 1 patrol 22 Apr, 1943 - 31 Oct, 1943 5. Flottille (training)
1 Nov, 1943 - 19 Apr, 1944 7. Flottille (front boat)
Successes No ships sunk or damagedFate Sunk 19 April, 1944 in the North Sea by Stavanger, Norway, in position 59.08N, 05.23E, by torpedoes from Norwegian submarine HNoMS Ula. 42 dead and 8 survivors.
The loss of U-974
The Norwegian submarine Ula fired a spread of 4 torpedoes towards U-974 at the range of about 1200 meters. One of those hit the boat just aft of the conning tower causing a major explosion which shook the Ula which crash dived and during that dive they could hear the U-974 break in two as it sank.
The boat was discovered in 1996 by a ROV at about 190m depth (ca. 580 feet). She is broken in two parts, one of about 15 meters and the second of around 40 meters in length. The wreck lies about 1000m south east of Loten on the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger, Norway.




From http://www.skovheim.org/located/rogaland/u974/u974.htm

The German submarine U 974 was torpedoed on 19. April 1944 by the Norwegian Submarine Ula when she was heading out from Bergen city, and the submarine broke in two pieces when she were hit by the torpedoes. The submarine sunk with forty two men in the deep, and only eight men of the crew survived this sinking. The German submarine had since she was laid down in Hamburg in 1942 been on only one patrol, thou without any sinking or sucesses. The sinking of U 974 was noted in the extremely effective German statistics and forgotten until 1996. The wreck was then discovered by the Norwegian navy vessel KNM Tyr with help from a ROV, which located the wreck at about 190m depth outside Stavanger city. The wreck lies approximately about one thousand meters south east of Loten in the western Bokanfjorden, near Stavanger city...

I see no mention that both or infact either submarine was submerged during this engagement. As there were eight survivors from the U-boat then it would indicate to me that the U-boat was struck departing its base while still on the surface.

[GV_Darkata]

un altro sommergibile non tornerà alla sua base, il suo battello è diventata la sua bara d'acciaio

[flintlock]

Looks like someone needs his caffeine before attempting to post in the morning.

[Onkel Neal]

I for one will miss the inclusion of Japanese AI subs in SH4. One of my few regrets with SH3 was the lack of AI U-boats to form wolfpacks. Wolfpacks would not have been a huge improvement on the gameplay but they would have definitely added to the immersion aspect. I don't understand the programming challenges of adding a vessel unit in the game that can descend below the surface; the AI surface units are set to interact with the surface and the AI air units are designed to exist above the surface.

I understand the time frame that Ubisoft gave the dev team was very short, about a year. I assume (guessing , really) that the AI Jap sub omission is mainly due to that, it's a feature that cannot be fit in to the schedule. Creating a stable SH4, even with SH3 as a foundation, is a really big task, especially given that the dev team has improved many areas of the game as well as the graphics. Not everything one may wish for is feasible and I accept that. Still, how cool would it have been to be stalking a maru… you cripple it with a well placed torpedo…and you decide to surface and finish it off with the deck gun… you instruct the lookouts to keep a sharp eye out for planes…and while the deck crew is firing the 5" gun, you see something strange off to the side… a funny little wave that doesn't belong, a wake…. by golly, there's something out there. Is that a fish or dolphin? Did the dev team sneak some aquatics in…no! holy moly! That's a periscope wake…and then watch as twin torpedo tracks emerge and streak straight towards you.

Yeah… that would have been sweet Maybe we can put together a Subsim mod team and make that work.

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Yeah… that would have been sweet. Maybe we can put together a Subsim mod team and make that work.

Definitely would have been a great assest. Though I suspect you'd need to assemble more of an experienced and talented dev team to make that happen. That, or an investor that can entice Yves Guillemot to sign over the franchise license and source code.