WWII vet, 88, brutally beaten to death in Spokane, Wash.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Good parenting maybe? Aside from that I think there has been some large shifts in society that encourage less then desirable attributes in people. (which could be a very long topic in and of itself)

Other then that, the use of the word "morals" is usually synonymous with religion, I strongly disagree. One does not have to be religious to have good moral character.

I see Happy Valley hasn't converted you yet.

Note, Send more cookies and jello salad to Ducimus' house.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Other then that, the use of the word "morals" is usually synonymous with religion...

Interesting; when I look up the word "Moral" in both my Webster's and Oxford (American Desk Dictionary and Thesaurus), the word "Religion" is not found in any of it's forms, nor implied.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

Interesting; when I look up the word "Moral" in both my Webster's and Oxford (American Desk Dictionary and Thesaurus), the word "Religion" is not found in any of it's forms, nor implied.

It is usually associated but not necessarily part of the definition.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It is usually associated but not necessarily part of the definition.

I think it does have some impact. For most of us growin up as kids 60s-80's, even if your family wasn't religious, we were more aware of the eye in the sky, going to hell, prayer in school, 10 cmdts, etc. I think a lot of it was growing up at the end of the cowboy age, the white hat age, we understood good vs evil. Heck, even fake wrestling taught good vs. evil as well as most TV shows, Waltons, Happy Days, etc. I think the bigger problem today is that everything is shades of grey.

Certainly, religions was the base for morality and even most law. As we went secular, morals have been redefined.

I'm sure these events have always existed, just not reported. I think the scary thing is useless crimes or fun killings. That seems to be something more new.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I think it does have some impact. For most of us growin up as kids 60s-80's, even if your family wasn't religious, we were more aware of the eye in the sky, going to hell, prayer in school, 10 cmdts, etc. I think a lot of it was growing up at the end of the cowboy age, the white hat age, we understood good vs evil. Heck, even fake wrestling taught good vs. evil as well as most TV shows, Waltons, Happy Days, etc. I think the bigger problem today is that everything is shades of grey.

Certainly, religions was the base for morality and even most law. As we went secular, morals have been redefined.

I'm sure these events have always existed, just not reported. I think the scary thing is useless crimes or fun killings. That seems to be something more new.

No doubt it has a impact. Ducimus cut me off at the pass in his post a few back and I left it at that. I did not want to turn thread into a discussion of religion.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It is usually associated but not necessarily part of the definition.

You missed my point, and therefore the fault is mine. What I was (not so eloquently) implying is that Religion and Morality should be synonymous, but unfortunately they are not. People can be religious about many thing. They can be religiously immoral. Just because a religion exists, doesn't make it any more moral than the people that make up it's body. Religions are institutions created by man.
If I also look up the word "religion/religious", I do not find the word "moral" either.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

You missed my point, and therefore the fault is mine. What I was (not so eloquently) implying is that Religion and Morality should be synonymous, but unfortunately they are not. People can be religious about many thing. They can be religiously immoral. Just because a religion exists, doesn't make it any more moral than the people that make up it's body. Religions are institutions created by man.
If I also look up the word "religion/religious", I do not find the word "moral" either.

Read post #20.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Read post #20.

Originally Posted by Armistead

morals have been redefined.

I believe you cannot really redefine morals. I mean, one can change whatever he/she likes about their definition to justify their opposition, or lack of dedication to them, but the only thing that's really changing is one's regard or disregard for them.
Just because the masses accept an immorality as now being moral, doesn't actually make it moral. It only changes their opinion/perspective of the morality.
OK, my apologies for the OT.

[Ducimus]

How often are the words "Honor" and "Integrity" used in today's society? Not very much i wager.

Also, there is no religious context that I am aware of in the following statement:

On my honor, I will not lie, cheat, steal, commit any act of intentional dishonesty, nor tolerate those who do.

I had those words drilled into my head as a teen, and have tried to live by it for most of my life. Mostly successful, sometimes not.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Also, there is no religious context that I am aware of in the following statement:

Very similar to a few of the 10 commandments.

[Ducimus]

The concept that lying, cheating, stealing, etc is not exclusive to any religion or culture. Then there's Honor and Integrity. Concepts almost as old as civilization itself. Personally, i don't even hear the word integrity anymore unless its in the context of Law Enforcement.

Boil it down further, in reference to the story in the OP in this thread, and even the 3 teens that decided to thrill kill, I have to wonder what kind of father figure is common these days? Has child rearing taken a horrible wrong turn or is there a lack or poor parental figures? If that's the case, then next question is why? Social/economic reasons perhaps? Or maybe simply a distinct lack of face to face human interaction in today's world, which perhaps is resulting in less empathy? Did i mention this thought process could be a long subject all unto itself?

I don't think there is any one single cause, but I do think moral decay is a real issue.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The concept that lying, cheating, stealing, etc is not exclusive to any religion or culture.


I don't think there is any one single cause, but I do think moral decay is a real issue.

Of course it is not exclusive to any religion or culture but how do you think it came about that these things like lying, cheating, stealing and killing are a bad thing?

Yes, there is moral decay. What is the leading cause of moral decay in your opinion?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Of course it is not exclusive to any religion or culture but how do you think it came about that these things like lying, cheating, stealing and killing are a bad thing?

If we were to split hairs, id say, that if a set of religious commandments were being written today, and we were sitting in the same room as the guy doing the writting, and he wrote those down, id say something like, "Well duh!" These things are baser moralities. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a religious scholar to know that being stolen from, cheated on, lied to, or killed really freaking sucks. I don't want these things done to me, so I don't wish them on anyone else. It's a no brainer. Really.

Yes, there is moral decay. What is the leading cause of moral decay in your opinion?

You mean I have to pick just one cause? I don't think i can.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

If we were to split hairs, id say, that if a set of religious commandments were being written today, and we were sitting in the same room as the guy doing the writting, and he wrote those down, id say something like, "Well duh!" These things are baser moralities. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a religious scholar to know that being stolen from, cheated on, lied to, or killed really freaking sucks. I don't want these things done to me, so I don't wish them on anyone else. It's a no brainer. Really.

We are not born understanding that killing, cheating, lying and stealing are wrong. Basically we are animals at birth and taught right from wrong. It is not instinctual that I would think. These ideals of right and wrong came from somewhere.

[Ducimus]

Empathy.

EDIT:
Oh and GI Joe cartoons, cause knowing is half the battle!