Camp Twink - Feminizing boys to be like girls. (Sick)

[garren]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

The one we live in.





I was waiting for you to make a comparison. An unrealistic comparison as well.
Firstly, your thread 'implies' that the kids are forced\coerced\told\\blackmailed or any other way against their will into this 4 day camp by titling it: 'feminizing boys to be like girls'.
Who is feminizing the boys? Is it the parents? Is it the boys themselves?
No-one. The camp? Nope. The camp, as i see it is a 'release' and a safe haven\ground for these kids to be themselves for a few days, away from the stereotypical and ignorant garbage that Society (yes, there's that word again) dishes out to anything that's not considered 'normal' or mainstream in the eyes of the ignorant buffoons who can't and won't accept gender differences in our....society.
Still living in the dark ages i suspect.
To me it seems utterly normal that a 'safe haven', such as this camp exists where people, or boys in this case can be themselves without being judged, bullied, harrassed, annoyed, sexually discriminated against, physically discriminated against, verbally discriminated against, etc etc.
Don't see the harm in it.
You seem to, firstly by creating the thread, then putting your slant on it by calling it sick, then by responding to my reply with a certain tone of venom and defensiveness.
Your comparison of these boys being able to 'come out' and being themselves, as the article describes, and comparing that to parents who molest children is a seriously bad example and i suggest you come up with a much more realistic and relative example next time.






Of course you do.
I would be interested to see what you thought of parents molesting children are then. Sick?




Society 50 years ago was a lot, and i stress the word lot more reserved and intolerant to gender issues than today.
We've come a long long way since then, although there is a long way to go until acceptance of issues such as these are addressed and moreso fully understood, and most importantly, the stigmas surrounding gender equality accepted and dealt with in a mature and empathetic way.




Probably not, since your thread wouldn't have got the replies it has so far.
It would have disappeared off the front page of GT quickly i suspect.
Although, i would have commended you for sharing it and shedding some light on this subject and perhaps educate some people and give it exposure which would have not happened 50 years ago.






Of course. I just made an opinion, like you, to state that calling it sick is far-fetched.
In my eyes. Nothing more, nothing less.



Don't see how, since there is no forcing of children being driven to these camps and quiete frankly the pictures seem to indicate that the boys and parents alike are actually enjoying themselves. Now before we jump down my throat and call me ignorant to the allegations that the media is very capable of not delivereing the full story or portraying this story as factual or not giving us the complete facts, of whether the parents are or are not forcing the boys to take part or not is another story.
Going off the pictures and the content of the story, it seems that it's a harmless, mutual and happy time had by all. How de we know? We don't. All i can conclude is that both parties are there at the camp by mutual agreement. If there is any signs of child abuse going on, mentally, physically or both, investigations would have already ensued by now, not least of the fact that this camp has been given exposure to the media and would already have been scrutinized by child protection services and other departments responsible for the welfare of children. Had that been the case. Or if that is the case. Agree. You and I may not agree on the parents being able to make certain decisions for their children, based on our beliefs, or our reservedness when it comes to issues like this. Can't be? Why not? You're talking about the physical attributes of womanhood? Therefore becoming a woman via surgical methods? Or? Transgender people are being accepted more and more in todays' society. Once again, we've come along way, still a long way to go.
Reality will only slap them in the face if certain sections of todays society displays the usual ignorant and stereotypical garbage that we see. Worse still, violent behaviour shown towards transgendered people, resulting in suicide, death, mental and physical scarring, trauma, the list goes on. They have morew chance of becoming what they want to become nowadays then say 50 years ago. In my eyes that can only be a good thing. .See above. How are they not protecting them? And we are discussing the article you posted and entirely drawing conclusions just from that article and discussing only the camp and its purpose and nothing else. I don't see that the parents in this article would be 'protecting their boys by not giving them support and the freedom to attend a camp such as this and let them be themselves, as the article describes it. Remember, just because a child looks young, doesn't mean to say we should underestimate the perceptions of a child. I don't think so at all. I think the article is a report on a camp that gives children the opportunity to be themselves and the parents are anything but bleating their disapproval of society's ignorant and unaccepting stance on gender issues.
That's fine, i don't either. But i don't see it. Still. No agenda-pushing going on here.

The gender issues we have faced, as a society so far, has taught us that, as i said above, we have a long way to go.

There's no such thing as "transgender". One can not change the sex they were born with. There's only genital mutilation and pretending to be something you're not.

And why does society have to be accepting of these.... people (or do they not want to be people anymore)? I don't want to offend them if they wish to be aliens from the planet Twink if that's what they wish to be. After all, being a "person" is as oppressive as a male being a male and a female being a female.

How about they conform to social norms instead? Remember, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." And that was a liberal that said that.

Seems to be some misandry in the article as well. "Nasty dark boy aisle". Not pushing an agenda huh? It reeks of female supremacy. Attacking masculinity and maleness is not any way to win acceptance.

[garren]

Originally Posted by razark

Just out of curiosity, at what age did you make a conscious decision that you wanted to be a boy or girl?

My father's DNA made the decision for me. I got my Y chromosome from him just like any male alive got his Y from his father. And I grew up doing masculine things from the time I was born. But thankfully my parents didn't use me as a guinea pig to push their social agenda onto the mainstream society by deliberately emasculating me like these parents are doing to their kids. I bet a lot of these boys eventually commit suicide or go on shooting sprees in their schools in the future. They're never going to know who they are or what they are because of their parents abuse of them.

[garren]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

"Hi! I'm Michael Jackson and I'll be your counselor here at Camp Confusion."

This.

[razark]

If age doesn't matter in this, why bring it up? Shift those goalposts! Dehumanize the opposition. Appeal to fear. Make baseless accusations.

Not that there's going to be any productive discussion here. Not everyone will live up to your idea of "normal", and there's no reason to expect them to. As long as no one is forcing you to do something you do not want, what does it hurt you to let others live their lives?

[garren]

Originally Posted by razark

If age doesn't matter in this, why bring it up? Shift those goalposts! Dehumanize the opposition. Appeal to fear. Make baseless accusations.

Not that there's going to be any productive discussion here. Not everyone will live up to your idea of "normal", and there's no reason to expect them to. As long as no one is forcing you to do something you do not want, what does it hurt you to let others live their lives?

Because this is child abuse. Exploiting children in this manner is abuse. It's no different than child porn in my opinion. These boys in the photos are much too young to know what they want to be when they grow up and their parents are exploiting that weakness of being too ignorant to understand the world and how it works.

I had a daughter and when she was young she wanted to be a kitty. Did I take her to a camp where they spay and declaw kids so she could be a kitty? Of course not.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by garren

...declaw kids so she could be a kitty? Of course not.

Kids don't have claws....that's probably why.


The way I see this, the parents can raise their children however they want. They have to live with their decision so why are we judging these parents? If they think it's bad and they do it anyway, they live with the consequence.

They aren't sending Straight kids into a camp and they're coming out Gay. It isn't the Assembly Line of Homosexuality.

It's a choice. I personally don't support it...but I won't hate the people just because they're Gay or they send their kid to a camp that is more feminine.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by garren

There's no such thing as "transgender".

Really? Here's something to read up on then...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

One can not change the sex they were born with.

No, but i can only imagine what some transgendered People, including adolescents go through in gender identity wrestles. Of course there is much more to it than just thinking to oneself: Oh, i'm a boy but i want to be a girl. If it was as simple as that, there would be far less Deaths in this world, due to the fact that transition would be easier, acceptance would be easier, and the Person's life would be less about fighting with a crisis on both fronts. The outside front, the world, and the inside front, the person's own self.

and pretending to be something you're not.

Pretending? These People are so far removed from the thought of yours that they are just pretending to be a girl or boy, and it's not to assume that that is what gender identity is. A game.

And why does society have to be accepting of these

Why? Because they have the right to live on this Earth just the same as you do. As i do.
That's one reason.
I gather you haven't come across many transgender people in your lifes travels? Are you disgusted by transgender people? I won't ask what offends you about them, since that will lead into other discussions which the community of Subsim needs sparing from.

.... people

You had to think about that.

(or do they not want to be people anymore)?

That's another reason why society should accept them. Infact a massive reason why. All along transgender people have been fighting for just that. To be recognised as people. To be part of society just like the 'normal' people. Straight, mainstream (considered by reservist ignorant and ill-informed members of society) etc etc.

How about they conform to social norms instead?

Say what? You mean conform to your standards, don't you?

Remember, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

Yea, and transgender people serve in the forces. Do you?

And that was a liberal that said that.

Yea, very liberal quote that.

Seems to be some misandry in the article as well. "Nasty dark boy aisle". Not pushing an agenda huh? It reeks of female supremacy. Attacking masculinity and maleness is not any way to win acceptance.

Is your masculinity threatened so much by this article that you had to post it in the hope that you would stir or awaken some section of this community into battle for your side, which seems to be the side that doesn't accept transgender people and that persons who are battling with gender identity are sic and that parents who molest children are being compared to this article in some way, which is quiete frankly as laughable as the question that you asked why society should accept these people.

I really don't hesitate to think that by putting the (sick) in your thread title was a about as convenient as it was wrong.

I suggest that posting articles on GT in future would be a little more unbiased and devoid of your obviously-unaccepting attitudes towards said subject matter.

Have a good day.

Another gay thing from garren.

[BossMark]

Jesus H bloody Christ

Jesus H bloody Christ

Kinda reminds me of Jesus Camp, which brings up .....

[Skybird]

http://cuncti.net/

http://sciencefiles.org/

http://genderama.blogspot.de/

For German-tongued readers, some sites that frequently deal with the crime-against-sexual-identity that over here is called genderism, and which is nothing than the revival of ultra-orthodox feminism and the intended discrimination of male humans and male values. It is sickening - and since the early 90s official and integral part of of EU policy-enforcing.

I am not against equal rights (and duties!) for women, I am all fore equality. But to me that means equality before the law, fair chances for both sexes according to their unique characteristics, it does not mean to deny differences and to make equal in form what is not equal in form. I compare to the kind of equality I support for a white and a black person when looking for a job or facing the court: nobody would claim by that equality-demand that there are no whites and blacks by skin colour, and even small differences in physiology between whites ans blacks that doctors even have to take into account when prescribing drugs. Equality for women and men means: justice, not more and not less. But genderism is not about equality, but female dominance, demonising of male qualities, and what makes it worse is that itn is not even a natural feminine quality that should dominate, but a perverted, obsessed, supremacist tyrant with boobs who holds a deep-rooting disgust if not outright hate for what is associated with being male. Genderism presentes this extremist feminism once again, basing on the psychologically and medically undefendable lie that people are born without any sexual preferences or identity and thus can be engineered to be the one or the other sex in all intellectual, emotional, behavioral, motivational and other regards. - WHICH IS TOTAL AND COMPLETE BULLSH!T. Even the existence of homosexuality and trans-sexuality (a male psyche trapped in a female body or the other way around) proves that this feminist claim of a sexual "tabula rasa" is nonsense. But it serves an ideological purpose to spread this propaganda.

Genderism is the revival of extremist feminism of the most hate-filled, the worst, the most supremacist kind. And after having changed the label feminism for genderism, it has become more successful (while deceptive) than ever before. If you follow related developments over here since some longer time - like I do -, then you know how terribly it already is going wrong. The disadvantaging of fathers in family court cases also is a status in which to achieve genderism has had a very decisive word. The discrimination of men is being turned into valid laws more and more, and I do not even mention how politically correct genderistas have started to rape the German language in a bid to delete the male qualities from it. Since this feminist policy works wonderfully in relativising and destroying the institution of family and parents as well, it is neither a surprise that in the wake of this ideological crusade the termini of "mother" and "father" gets deleted as well, nor is it surprising that the political left, eager to destroy bourgeois "family" and replace it with leftist concepts of state-driven collectives.

Long live the differences between men and women! They are what bring us together. Genderism, feminism, chauvinism: let it rot in hell - and those supporting it along with it. I see the danger and predatory nature of these new feminists, and I deal with them accordingly, yes - but I refuse to take them intellectually serious. They are basing almost exclusively on propaganda lies that have been shown - even by moderate and educated feminists! - to be simply wrong so many times before, over and over again, since years and years. And yet their lobby still spreads the same old lies again and again - and more successfull since 15 or 20 years than ever before.

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I think I am most proud of Nipplespammer for not knowing the difference between Ben Affleck and Ryan Reynolds.

If he where my son I would take him out and do something manly to insure that he did not become a queer or like French people or something I mean he is already German.

Uhhhhh...

[Oberon]

What a delightful thread full of reasoned debate, level headedness and non-bigotry. Truly a shining example of the heights of which GT has ascended.

[HunterICX]

HunterICX

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Oberon

What a delightful thread full of reasoned debate, level headedness and non-bigotry. Truly a shining example of the heights of which GT has ascended.

What a surprise. As I've said plenty of times: This place is a complete mess.

I regularly visit the JREF forums, where a wide range of topics are discussed that
one could say are "controversial", yet the discussion most of the time stays civil.