One shot kills

[Hylander_1314]

Also, firing from too far away. The point is, to get in as close as possible, and let 'em have it. And yes as stated above, have the torpedoes set as per pistol, depth, and if there is an option, speed settings.

Open the outter tube doors, the "Q" key, and even then, I just aim a little ahead of where I want the torpedoes to hit.

Over time, you good a estimating it for different distances. If you like longer range shots, then load up with the Mk 18 electric fish, but they run slower and have a short range. But I add a bit of lead when I aim using them.

[torpedobait]

I'm certainly no expert - I use auto-targeting, but one factor that was mentioned above that might have escaped your notice is the Locked Target. I rarely lock onto a target, which allows me to better place torpedos using the quadrant spacing. If you leave the target locked and it is speeding, espcially if you use "slow" settings on the torpedo, you will hit towards the stern on slow to medium speed ships, and may miss entirely on the faster ones, especially if you are outside 1,000 yards.

Try that too.

[Carthaginian]

Originally Posted by doulos05

Actually, I think the bit about opening doors is likely your problem

No, my tube doors are always open- all of them.
I open tube doors generally on the surface, or as far out as possible if submerged. This is one of the loudest things that a sub can do... so it is done when it is least likely to give the escorts a 'hot noise' to home in on. Once I line up my shot, I have already done everything necessary to make the attack happen except fire the fish.

I also am sure to lock the target... generally on several occasions, as the strength of my shooting solution depends on observations during this period- and consequently, the more times I observe/lock the target, the better my solution will be. Whether this is entirely true in game mechanics is beside the point- that's the way it is in life... so that's how I play it.

[twm47099]

Originally Posted by Carthaginian

No, my tube doors are always open- all of them.
I open tube doors generally on the surface, or as far out as possible if submerged. This is one of the loudest things that a sub can do... so it is done when it is least likely to give the escorts a 'hot noise' to home in on. Once I line up my shot, I have already done everything necessary to make the attack happen except fire the fish.

I also am sure to lock the target... generally on several occasions, as the strength of my shooting solution depends on observations during this period- and consequently, the more times I observe/lock the target, the better my solution will be. Whether this is entirely true in game mechanics is beside the point- that's the way it is in life... so that's how I play it.

I found out the hard way that when you go deep all your outer doors close. So if you dive below about 100 ft to avoid an escort you will have to reopen your doors when you are back at shooting depth.

Also make sure that you turn the PK off and back on when changing targets. I haven't quite figured out all of the reasons (and when you can get away w/o the PK being on in auto targeting mode), but if you do it and you see a big change in the target dial, you needed to do it. I have had cases where the PK had to be cycled when the target I was tracking changed course. Not sure what was going there either.

Another thing -- if you are firing multiple shots at one target, auto targeting sets the torpedo depth for the selected tube only when you Lock the target in the scope. So if you preset a certain depth (I like under the keel shots with no duds set in the options) and then lock a target, the sim will set the depth that it feels is optimum, but only for the tube selected when the target is locked.

Tom

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Carthaginian

No, my tube doors are always open- all of them.
I open tube doors generally on the surface, or as far out as possible if submerged. This is one of the loudest things that a sub can do... so it is done when it is least likely to give the escorts a 'hot noise' to home in on. Once I line up my shot, I have already done everything necessary to make the attack happen except fire the fish.

I also am sure to lock the target... generally on several occasions, as the strength of my shooting solution depends on observations during this period- and consequently, the more times I observe/lock the target, the better my solution will be. Whether this is entirely true in game mechanics is beside the point- that's the way it is in life... so that's how I play it.

You don't have to worry about things like torp doors causing a noise factor. The game basically has one overall noise generic value, other noises, bells, men, battlestations, torp doors, have no noise value, only silent running will decrease the value, other things have no effect either way. For instance, you can have silent running on and your men still pump water out....enemy can't hear it.

[doulos05]

Originally Posted by twm47099

Also make sure that you turn the PK off and back on when changing targets. I haven't quite figured out all of the reasons (and when you can get away w/o the PK being on in auto targeting mode), but if you do it and you see a big change in the target dial, you needed to do it. I have had cases where the PK had to be cycled when the target I was tracking changed course. Not sure what was going there either.

PK can make you miss astern. It seems to consistently underestimate speed.

[Carthaginian]

Didn't know that there were only two noise values.
I knew a couple of nukes and one diesel boat sailor (D.B.F.) and they taught me all that could cause noise... so I have been playing it safe- you can never be too quiet, after all. I'd have my crew dipping the handles of their wrenches in rubber if that was an option.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by doulos05

PK can make you miss astern. It seems to consistently underestimate speed.

The PK does not estimate the speed.YOU enter the speed into the TDC, the PK just does a constant update of range , bearing and AOB once entered, it bases this data on the speed entered.The solution is only as good as the info entered. Enter the data when your target is approaching from the port and has a 20 degree AOB, enter range, bearing, aob, and speed, then click the PK, drop the scope and watch the solution update.Technically speaking, you could never raise the scope again and if the target does not change its speed or course, you could fire and have a high chance of getting hits.I prefer to update range and bearing until the last second before firing and use a new bearing for each torpedo so they hit at different points(can use the spred knob for this but prefer this method) but a few times I have had to go below scope depth to avoid an escort that was close but was not quite ready to fire.Gato's tubes can stay open up to 150 feet or so, so while I dove, the TDC kept updating the data, when the range was down to 1200 on the TDC and the AOB was was shown as 85, I let my torpedoes fly, used the spread knob accordingly, guess what? 3 of 4 hit and sunk a large tanker.The PK was the big advantage US TDC's had over other countries and works fine in the game.Some people expect a modern fire control computer lol, its def not that, the info you enter must be accurate, but it works fine.PK does not cause a miss.Initial speed input may have been off, target may have sped up slightly(they do it and its a risk run if fire without more observations) or changed course slightly, throwing your bearing off.

[Rockin Robbins]

If you're missing astern there's something wrong with your procedure. I propose that it's probably that you are entering the information in the wrong order, since the order of operations is almost never talked about and of course is not in the manual, which seems to be a reprint of the manual for a 1955 Sunbeam Toaster, not a game manual.

When you are entering info to the TDC it is very important that the last piece entered is the range/bearing of the target. And the reason is very apparent if you can visualize how the TDC with position keeper works.

The TDC merely establishes a target position, course and speed. It's a dot with attributes. And that data is good for the instant your button is stabbed. If you were to stab the button, wait ten seconds and then fire a torpedo, guess what?

The target has moved past your aiming point and when the torpedo hits, if it hits, it will be behind the point you aimed at when you stabbed the send range/bearing to TDC button. That's pretty clear, no? So you can miss astern with the PK off. It's easy. Just take too long between your observation and when you fire.

Now lets involve the PK. Instead of a fixed target point, the PK actually takes that target point and moves it along the course you tell it to and at the speed you tell the TDC. Then that target point actually follows the real target over time. In theory you can fire at any time you want and the solution remains good, unlike the old non-PK TDC.

So lets do it wrong. We'll use our periscope and stadimeter to get the bearing and range of the target. As soon as we stab the send to TDC button the TDC plots the position of the target, right on top of the real target. So far, so good.

Now you do your mental gymnastics and get ready to enter the AoB of the target, which tells the TDC the target course. You enter the AoB and stab that send to TDC button. What's happened? Not much. The target position is right where you told it to be and it is moving at zero knots in the direction you just told it. That means it's not moving.

Finally you enter the target speed and press that send to TDC button. NOW the artificial target point begins moving at the course and speed of the real target. But since you just told it to begin moving and it's been fifteen or twenty seconds since you told the TDC where the target is, the artificial target is quite a distance behind the real one! You are going to miss astern aren't you?

How do you prevent this? Just be sure you tell the TDC target AoB and speed first, THEN as a last step pop up the scope and take your range/bearing observation. Since you have already told the PK how to move the target point, you'll hit the send range/bearing to TDC button, the TDC will plot that artificial target right on top of the real one and the PK will immediately begin moving it to follow your input course and speed.

Order of operations is critical. You won't read this anywhere else, no matter how hard you search. I can't tell you why because it is critical information. NOW you will not miss astern.

[Armistead]

RR makes a good point. Really doesn't matter how or what order you get speed, AOB, etc as your setting up, but your last setup, speed better be set first before your last range. If I'm setting up, my PK is unlocked, I do my stads until I have speed and course, obvious to get speed you have to stad first with ranges. Once I have speed and course, I set those, think most know the enemies course gives you a perfect aob. Before I shoot I will take one last range/bearing, adjust AOB to course, lokc PK,then unlock target and shoot by the wire, sending a new bearing for each shot.,

Course many just get speed course first using 3 minute with contacts on or radar with off.

I made the best night surface long range radar shoot I think I ever have last night with cams and contacts off, shot from almost 11,000 yards with the torp hitting about 8000 yards on a BB, four out of six torps hit. I was lucky to get my torps in between the front and flank escorts without them being seen. I was in 200ft water depth, clear night with 0 winds...I was 7nms away running when the torps hit.

[Carthaginian]

Rockin Robbins...

If DeLand wasn't so far from Mobile that the heat would pop it, there'd be a beer in the mail.
Best explanation on PK I saw so far- and the first one that broke it down enough I could understand it in seconds.

[Platapus]

That RR is one of them smart guys we have here.

[Rockin Robbins]

Thank you Carthaginian. Now I really simplified it because the situation can be worse! What if your last target's course and speed is still sitting in the PK and you stab that button. The artificial target is going to tear away from the real one in some random direction you'll never figure out what went wrong!

I'm glad I was able to connect the dots for you. You know I always figure that if people don't understand a complicated concept it isn't because they are dumb, it's because the eggheads in charge of the concept don't think it's necessary to explain to anybody else how it works. Most ideas, looked at from a strange and screwy angle, my specialty , become pretty easy to understand. And most of the time you don't understand them because somebody didn't think it was important to communicate clearly.

[doulos05]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

The PK does not estimate the speed.YOU enter the speed into the TDC, the PK just does a constant update of range , bearing and AOB once entered, it bases this data on the speed entered.The solution is only as good as the info entered. Enter the data when your target is approaching from the port and has a 20 degree AOB, enter range, bearing, aob, and speed, then click the PK, drop the scope and watch the solution update.Technically speaking, you could never raise the scope again and if the target does not change its speed or course, you could fire and have a high chance of getting hits.I prefer to update range and bearing until the last second before firing and use a new bearing for each torpedo so they hit at different points(can use the spred knob for this but prefer this method) but a few times I have had to go below scope depth to avoid an escort that was close but was not quite ready to fire.Gato's tubes can stay open up to 150 feet or so, so while I dove, the TDC kept updating the data, when the range was down to 1200 on the TDC and the AOB was was shown as 85, I let my torpedoes fly, used the spread knob accordingly, guess what? 3 of 4 hit and sunk a large tanker.The PK was the big advantage US TDC's had over other countries and works fine in the game.Some people expect a modern fire control computer lol, its def not that, the info you enter must be accurate, but it works fine.PK does not cause a miss.Initial speed input may have been off, target may have sped up slightly(they do it and its a risk run if fire without more observations) or changed course slightly, throwing your bearing off.

What I meant when I said that was, every time i use the PK, when I reconfirm the actual position, the PK's position is consistently, observably, behind target's actual position. This occurs whether I'm using auto-targeting or manual targeting and regardless of the order I enter data into the PK.

I have noticed that it seems most evident during high seas. This is the opposite from what I would have expected (I would have expected high seas to lead to the target making inconsistent progress and lagging behind the PK plot, but the opposite seems to be happening, with the PK plot lagging the target), and again, this occurs irregardless of whether I'm using auto- or manual targeting.

[Carthaginian]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Thank you Carthaginian. Now I really simplified it because the situation can be worse! What if your last target's course and speed is still sitting in the PK and you stab that button. The artificial target is going to tear away from the real one in some random direction you'll never figure out what went wrong!

LOL- had that happened to me, I would have probably executed a 'forcible uninstall' of SH4 (a.k.a. ripping out the hard drive with my teeth).