Whats wrong with games today. - Page 2

nikimcbee · 03-09-11, 03:19 PM

I miss Red Baron, Red Baron 3D, SH1, Gettysburg.

Tchocky · 03-09-11, 03:20 PM

Looking at it from a large developer point of view - why bother crafting a game when you can make thrice the money by focusing on a multiplayer engine and bashing out the single player component over a long weekend?

Stupid CoD.

Platapus · 03-09-11, 03:21 PM

I blame it on these crazy kids with their Rock and Roll.

And would it kill them to get a hair cut?

Get off my lawn too!

Growler · 03-09-11, 03:46 PM

Here's a big contributing fact:

The Internet, and bandwidth & transfer speeds.

When Microprose (god rest 'em) released Darklands, it was patched shortly after release with a 1.5MB patch that was only available via download from the MPS*BBS - a long distance phone call to Hunt Valley, MD, if you didn't live in the 410 area code. With a 9600 baud modem, that 1.5MB took about an hour to download - a long time on a long distance call.

Because of the difficulties in releasing patches to fix flawed software, the development life cycle took longer in order to increase the chance of getting a working product out the door absent the need for updating or patching.

Today, with the 'net, patches in order of 1GB or more have become the norm, as developers blitz a product out the door, then fix it once it's installed on a bunch of now-unhappy-customer's machines. Look at SH4 and 5 for examples of next-to-unplayable-until-fixed initial releases. And as long as consumers wait in line to buy initial-release-unplayable-drek, the model won't change.

Buddahaid · 03-09-11, 03:51 PM

Somebody always buys in first. If no one did there wouldn't be anything to buy later after the fixes.

Platapus · 03-09-11, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Somebody always buys in first. If no one did there wouldn't be anything to buy later after the fixes.

That is actually the reason I bought SH5 when it came out. If no one bought SH5, the chances of a fixed SH5 would be slim. And forget about SH6

AVGWarhawk · 03-09-11, 04:11 PM

There are games out today that are great graphically and capture my interest. After CFS1,2,3, IL2 and the SH series I did not think there would be much else for me to play. However, I did like Medal of Honor, COD World at War, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. Currently I toy around with COD Black Ops. A nice game but I prefer the older models of combat if you know what I mean.

Some games I would like to see updated:

CFS2
Janes WWII Combat Flight Simulator
B-17 Flying Fortress(this could have been a huge winner here if they continued to work on it)
Mechwarrior 3

MaddogK · 03-09-11, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

There are games out today that are great graphically and capture my interest. After CFS1,2,3, IL2 and the SH series I did not think there would be much else for me to play. However, I did like Medal of Honor, COD World at War, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. Currently I toy around with COD Black Ops. A nice game but I prefer the older models of combat if you know what I mean.

Some games I would like to see updated:

CFS2
Janes WWII Combat Flight Simulator
B-17 Flying Fortress(this could have been a huge winner here if they continued to work on it)
Mechwarrior 3

MW3 was awesome in it's rules implementation as well as the expansions, but MS killed it with MW4 when they messed with the hardpoints and the new weapons. I had more fun with MW2 (and mercs) than any other game I've ever owned, the soundtrack had MUCH to do with it. MW5 has been in the works for a few years, looks very good but licensing is holding it up.

AVGWarhawk · 03-09-11, 04:42 PM

MW3 was a great imaginative game. I was and still am a CFS2 fan. I enjoyed IL2 but I liked the graphics in CFS2 better. Plus modding was a plus where IL2 clamped that down for a very long time.

Raptor1 · 03-09-11, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaddogK

MW3 was awesome in it's rules implementation as well as the expansions, but MS killed it with MW4 when they messed with the hardpoints and the new weapons. I had more fun with MW2 (and mercs) than any other game I've ever owned, the soundtrack had MUCH to do with it. MW5 has been in the works for a few years, looks very good but licensing is holding it up.

Licensing is holding up the new MechWarrior? I think it's just the fact that the company that is developing it was/is involved in several other games including Duke Nukem Forever.

Looks rather awesome, though, my BattleTech fanboyism makes me unable to wait...

nikimcbee · 03-09-11, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I blame it on these crazy kids with their Rock and Roll.

And would it kill them to get a hair cut?

Get off my lawn too!

Growler · 03-09-11, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

B-17 Flying Fortress(this could have been a huge winner here if they continued to work on it)

*sigh*

B17 - The Mighty Eighth came so close, and yet, fell short. More proof that there was no god, it was one of Microprose's last offerings before they went away.

longam · 03-09-11, 05:19 PM

CFS2 and the Zone was the last time I had any fun playing a combat flight sim.

I was ready for TS2 but MS decided to tank the whole sim thing..

razark · 03-09-11, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Growler

B17 - The Mighty Eighth came so close, and yet, fell short.

Never played the sequel, but I'll still fire up the original from time to time. Would Mighty Eighth run on Vista, or Dosbox? I really miss the old Microprose games, and their manuals.

Penguin · 03-09-11, 05:22 PM

I think CCCIP made a brilliant analysis of the situation which we face today. I take him by his word about 20yr old gamers of today as I am not in contact with them and I am glad that he started to rant about them, so I don't sound like a bitter old man

.
Maybe this is indeed a generational aspect. I am very prejudiced against this generation who seems to communicate so much without saying anything. One hand texting, the other on the mouse while talking to someone. They seem to have an attention span of a 4yr old, so this explains the longing for a quick gratification.
I am really astonished that this stupid achievement hunt really works. I bought my xbox 3 years ago, solely for some quick games of GTA. I was really shocked to find out that these gaming points are just this: virtual points, and you can not even buy something like a fancy hat for your avatar or bs like this for it - or things that make sense, like additional content

To the aspect of "casual games" (how I hate this word). They have always been there. I still remember the days of game machines standing in every corner, when Frogger and Pac Man were the top games of its time - hardly any deep games. But, when gaming at a "homecomputer" started it was very interesting to see how deep games could be and it was a pleasure to use your mind. So I am very pleased to see that people - at least here - still have this demand. It saddens me at the same time to hear that the younger members, who are under 160 like me, seem to be an exception in their generation.

Several aspects have changed over the years.
1. Gaming has become a mass phenomen - even more than it was during Atari 2600 or early Nintendo times. In the early days, adults who play a game after a business meeting were an exception.

2. Due to this the budgets for the big games have risen dramatically, with all its consequences. A big budget is only profitable if you produce for the masses (hollywood analogy)

3. Short-term thinking. Remember lucasarts, microprose, infocrom and all the other great old names. They built up a serious reputation over all the years. Todays big players have a reputation somewhere between oil companies and politicians... Short term profit is all that counts - **** a good name, in a year we'll have a new CEO anyway...

What are the consequences for players like we have here, who get their gratification through mastering complicated games? - and hey I also like my virtual medals in Silent Hunter!

I think we have to face that the market for our products is indeed a comparatively small one. BUT: (attention: car analogy) just like Porsche has its own market share with customers who like sophisticated technology, we still represent a market. Take a look at the old 911 model - not the wimpy one of today. Steep learning curve, but you get satisfaction when you master a beast like this.

We should acknowledge that there is still a demand, at least here. Maybe we have to get back to the old days when a demanding sim was 2,3 or 4 times the price of a "normal" game. This would be the only chance I see today for serious sims. When you regard how many hours you spend on a sim - and all the manpower of the makers behind it - a price of say 150 bucks for a game with 2000 times more playing time in comparision to COD 17 would be the logical consequence of this.

03-09-11, 03:19 PM	#16
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I miss Red Baron, Red Baron 3D, SH1, Gettysburg. __________________

03-09-11, 03:20 PM	#17
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Looking at it from a large developer point of view - why bother crafting a game when you can make thrice the money by focusing on a multiplayer engine and bashing out the single player component over a long weekend? Stupid CoD. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

03-09-11, 03:21 PM	#18
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,408 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I blame it on these crazy kids with their Rock and Roll. And would it kill them to get a hair cut? Get off my lawn too! __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

03-09-11, 03:46 PM	#19
Growler A long way from the sea Join Date: May 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,913 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Here's a big contributing fact: The Internet, and bandwidth & transfer speeds. When Microprose (god rest 'em) released Darklands, it was patched shortly after release with a 1.5MB patch that was only available via download from the MPS*BBS - a long distance phone call to Hunt Valley, MD, if you didn't live in the 410 area code. With a 9600 baud modem, that 1.5MB took about an hour to download - a long time on a long distance call. Because of the difficulties in releasing patches to fix flawed software, the development life cycle took longer in order to increase the chance of getting a working product out the door absent the need for updating or patching. Today, with the 'net, patches in order of 1GB or more have become the norm, as developers blitz a product out the door, then fix it once it's installed on a bunch of now-unhappy-customer's machines. Look at SH4 and 5 for examples of next-to-unplayable-until-fixed initial releases. And as long as consumers wait in line to buy initial-release-unplayable-drek, the model won't change. __________________ At Fiddler’s Green, where seamen true When here they’ve done their duty The bowl of grog shall still renew And pledge to love and beauty.

03-09-11, 03:51 PM	#20
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,333 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Somebody always buys in first. If no one did there wouldn't be anything to buy later after the fixes. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

03-09-11, 04:11 PM	#22
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,298 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	There are games out today that are great graphically and capture my interest. After CFS1,2,3, IL2 and the SH series I did not think there would be much else for me to play. However, I did like Medal of Honor, COD World at War, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. Currently I toy around with COD Black Ops. A nice game but I prefer the older models of combat if you know what I mean. Some games I would like to see updated: CFS2 Janes WWII Combat Flight Simulator B-17 Flying Fortress(this could have been a huge winner here if they continued to work on it) Mechwarrior 3 __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

03-09-11, 04:42 PM	#24
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,298 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	MW3 was a great imaginative game. I was and still am a CFS2 fan. I enjoyed IL2 but I liked the graphics in CFS2 better. Plus modding was a plus where IL2 clamped that down for a very long time. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

03-09-11, 05:19 PM	#28
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	CFS2 and the Zone was the last time I had any fun playing a combat flight sim. I was ready for TS2 but MS decided to tank the whole sim thing..

03-09-11, 05:22 PM	#30
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	I think CCCIP made a brilliant analysis of the situation which we face today. I take him by his word about 20yr old gamers of today as I am not in contact with them and I am glad that he started to rant about them, so I don't sound like a bitter old man . Maybe this is indeed a generational aspect. I am very prejudiced against this generation who seems to communicate so much without saying anything. One hand texting, the other on the mouse while talking to someone. They seem to have an attention span of a 4yr old, so this explains the longing for a quick gratification. I am really astonished that this stupid achievement hunt really works. I bought my xbox 3 years ago, solely for some quick games of GTA. I was really shocked to find out that these gaming points are just this: virtual points, and you can not even buy something like a fancy hat for your avatar or bs like this for it - or things that make sense, like additional content To the aspect of "casual games" (how I hate this word). They have always been there. I still remember the days of game machines standing in every corner, when Frogger and Pac Man were the top games of its time - hardly any deep games. But, when gaming at a "homecomputer" started it was very interesting to see how deep games could be and it was a pleasure to use your mind. So I am very pleased to see that people - at least here - still have this demand. It saddens me at the same time to hear that the younger members, who are under 160 like me, seem to be an exception in their generation. Several aspects have changed over the years. 1. Gaming has become a mass phenomen - even more than it was during Atari 2600 or early Nintendo times. In the early days, adults who play a game after a business meeting were an exception. 2. Due to this the budgets for the big games have risen dramatically, with all its consequences. A big budget is only profitable if you produce for the masses (hollywood analogy) 3. Short-term thinking. Remember lucasarts, microprose, infocrom and all the other great old names. They built up a serious reputation over all the years. Todays big players have a reputation somewhere between oil companies and politicians... Short term profit is all that counts - **** a good name, in a year we'll have a new CEO anyway... What are the consequences for players like we have here, who get their gratification through mastering complicated games? - and hey I also like my virtual medals in Silent Hunter! I think we have to face that the market for our products is indeed a comparatively small one. BUT: (attention: car analogy) just like Porsche has its own market share with customers who like sophisticated technology, we still represent a market. Take a look at the old 911 model - not the wimpy one of today. Steep learning curve, but you get satisfaction when you master a beast like this. We should acknowledge that there is still a demand, at least here. Maybe we have to get back to the old days when a demanding sim was 2,3 or 4 times the price of a "normal" game. This would be the only chance I see today for serious sims. When you regard how many hours you spend on a sim - and all the manpower of the makers behind it - a price of say 150 bucks for a game with 2000 times more playing time in comparision to COD 17 would be the logical consequence of this.

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