[REL] Radar Training for Nisgeis' 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit UPDATED: 7/31/10

[Nisgeis]

It's mounted more or less directly above the range unit - look up in the 'A' Scope view (the green screen) and it's on the pressure hull.

[I'm goin' down]

I would not have thought to look up there. I am now using a Gar. It is 6/41 and your mod has no triangle. Where did it go? Do you have any idea why it disappeared? Also, I will probably have to wait for Channing to get further in his tutorial to understand all of the mods aspects.

[Nisgeis]

The triangle only shows up if you are in expanded sweep mode (precision mode). If you can see the range unit (e.g. it's activated) then switch through the ranges until you get the triangles back.

[Patchman123]

Shouldn't the position keeper have to work automatically instead of you manually turning it on?

The American TDC added the feature of being able to automatically track the ship.

We should be able to track the ship automatically by having the periscope locked on to it.

What about having the radar range actually work with the TDC? I also want the XO to track the target as well from the periscope.

What about the PK TDC window in the periscope station? What are you going to do about that?

The TDC should just start automatically working if you're locked on the ship in real time. All the info was provided in real time to the TDC.
Did the actual TDC work like that?


Is it possible to have the Position Keeper to automatically work and switch on when the ship is locked in the periscope? This would be more liked how realistically the TDC worked in real life.

The PK worked when a ship was tracked in the periscope. The AOB was put in to the TDC by clicking on the TDC window.

There should be a TDC station from the Toolbar in Silent Hunter IV. It would be nice to have a separate TDC station in the sub in the coning tower. You could walk to the TDC station and manually calculate it.

[John Channing]

There are a lot of things the TDC should do, but Nisgeis is limited by what the game is designed to do.

JCC

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Patchman123

Shouldn't the position keeper have to work automatically instead of you manually turning it on?

The real PK was turn on and offable for easy control.

Originally Posted by Patchman123

The American TDC added the feature of being able to automatically track the ship.

There was no automatic tracking. What it could do was forecast the position of a ship based on the data entered into it.

Originally Posted by Patchman123

We should be able to track the ship automatically by having the periscope locked on to it.

If you want to do that, you can turn on automatic targetting. It's not realistic in any way, but it will work and will populate the TDC with the correct data.

Originally Posted by Patchman123

What about having the radar range actually work with the TDC? I also want the XO to track the target as well from the periscope.

What do you mean by 'actually work'? You can send the radar range to the TDC via the stadimeter.

Originally Posted by Patchman123

What about the PK TDC window in the periscope station? What are you going to do about that?

Er, nothing.

Originally Posted by Patchman123

The TDC should just start automatically working if you're locked on the ship in real time. All the info was provided in real time to the TDC.

If you want that, then turn on automatic targetting and all the current target data will be fed to the TDC, regardless of whether the PK is on or not.

Originally Posted by Patchman123

Did the actual TDC work like that?

No, historically, the info was not provided to the TDC in real time, The best that happened was the information was presented to the TDC operator, but nothing was ever entered automatically - that was done by the TDC operator. This was only in the Mark 4, which had a stack between the PK and sound bearing converter stack and the Gyro Angle Solver Stack.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

I would not have thought to look up there. I am now using a Gar. It is 6/41 and your mod has no triangle. Where did it go? Do you have any idea why it disappeared? Also, I will probably have to wait for Channing to get further in his tutorial to understand all of the mods aspects.

I don't believe it will work in a Gar class. As far as I understand it it should only work in Balao and Gato.

Nisgeis?

JCC

[Nisgeis]

I've no idea what interior the Gar uses... depends on what supermod you use. If you can see the range unit, the mod will work, if you can't it won't.

[I'm goin' down]

How do I get my screen shot to be full size? Every size I try is smaller that the space on the screen. I am using image shack. I make the screen shot with Widows Vista Paint.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

How do I get my screen shot to be full size? Every size I try is smaller that the space on the screen. I am using image shack. I make the screen shot with Widows Vista Paint.

I never had much luck with Image Shack. I just set up a photo album here and link to it. The photos seem to size correctly without any frigging around.

Go to your "User CP" and look along the left for the link to set up your very own Subsim photo album.

All part of the service.

JCC

[I'm goin' down]

Uoading of screenshots turned into a disaster. I quit trying.

Here is an update. I figured out the 3D TDC target course setting protocol. In determining a target's course I do not know why one would fiddle with the target dial on the upper left of the 3D TDC by dragging the white triangle to match its plotted course. That dial appears useless when initially inputting a target's course. The dial that initially affects the target's course is the target dial on the upper RIGHT of the 3D TDC. That is what worked for me. First, I open the stadimeter to the Aob dial. Second, I open the 3D TDC and set the target's course via the target dial on the upper RIGHT. Third, I open the the stadimeter's Aob dial and send the target's course to the TDC. Fourth, I open the 3D TDC to verify it has accepted the data re the course change. If the course change has been accepted, the target dial on the upper left on the 3D TDC snaps to the new course. If this procedure is correct, then I have solved the target course problem I was having. I used this procedure to sink the slow target in the the third training mission.

Here are some other questions and comments.

First, in Channing's tutorial he notes that after plotting 3 or 4 entries one has determined the target's preliminary range, course and speed. Actually, you one has not determined preliminary speed. One has determined preliminary range and course only. I think the comment re speed is a mistake.

Second, what is the point of turning the radar off. Two times in the tutorial, the reader is instructed to turn radar off. His initial instructions notes that turning of radar is an important step. I do not understand why or the importance of doing so. It this instruction necessary or important?

Third, and this is a major question. The tutorial instructs the reader to set speed via the 3 minute rule. This is a pain the ass, and using the stop watch in combo with range/bearing readings is not precise because you are taking a range and bearing, starting the watch, switching screens to plot, switiiching screens to send the range, and at the end of three minutes, doing it again. Question No. 3: Why can't the reader rely on the watch button on the stadimeter speed dial, take two range and bearing readings, and rely the radarman's calculation of speed? I believe URGE or Hitman noted that this was an alternative. I would save time and needless plotting.

Once the TDC is in operation, one can verify if the course is accurate on the Attack Map. If it appears inaccurate, additional range and bearing readings will assist in providing correct information. If range is the only issue, one can adjust it via the range dial on the stadimeter.

I note that I missed six shots at the second tanker in the Mission 3 tutorial (the one approaching from 70 degrees starboard), but not by much. The tanker approached fairly quickly, and I was compelled to turn my boat 90 degrees to starboard to have a better (but not great) angle for an attack. I measured the tanker's speed at 14.25 kts. which was probably too slow. Its course was 220 degrees which appeared fairly accurate. The shots missed aft of the tanker by a few hundred yds. The problem here was the closing speed of the tanker, as it was passing my boat before I had a completed the set up. If I had spotted it at 20K yds. rather tan 12K yds., I might have fared better. Comments are appreciated.

I had map contacts on during this exercise, but my range and bearing for both tankers (the slow and faster one) we accurate. I simply had more time to set up for the slower target, plus I used the speed announced by the radarman for the slower target and I used the 3 minute speed rule for the faster one.

[bowfin]

Just wanted to add my two cents worth...
When plotting the target radar range and bearing onto the map. If you use radar "true bearing" instead of "relative bearing" with the ruler tool is already in true bearing. Just means you can look at radar bearing and then jump to map and simply draw a line from sub icon to target.
No need to work out sub heading and use protractor to work out difference of target bearing from sub heading. So much simpler and time saving.
I used to do it like JC's tutorial. Was a great moment when I realized I could do it with true bearing no matter what sub heading.

[I'm goin' down]

Are you saying the bearing displayed on the ceiling of the A scope is the true bearing? That appears to be what you mean to say.

If that is the true bearing, I wonder why the periscope view is referred to as the relative bearing. It seems that the periscope view is more accurate (i.e. true) than the true bearing you describe.

If I understand you, it is a good shortcut unless Nisgeis says you are crazy, or something like that.

[bowfin]

The outside circle is relative target bearing. 302 this goes in the TDC.
The inside circle is true bearing. 235 this can be used on the map for plotting...



The ruler tool helper is in true bearing. Start the ruler on your sub and when the line goes through 235 you have the bearing. Using true bearing for plotting takes less steps and introduces less error into your plot.
But the TDC still NEEDS the relative bearing !

[Nisgeis]

Relative means relative to your own boat, with 000 being your own bow, so a target that is at a relative bearing of 090 is on your starboard beam when you are pointing North. If your boat were turned without moving forward or backward through 180 degrees to point due South, then the target would be be at a relative bearing of 270. The True bearing doesn't change, as that's taken relative to North, with North being 000, so with your boat pointing North, the true bearing would be 090 and with yout boat pointing South, the target would still be at a true bearing of 090.