Just to get this straight.. - Page 2

schlechter pfennig · 05-14-10, 10:05 AM

I'm none too pleased about how the renown system works, either. On the one hand, I agree with picturing using one's renown to 'play politics' and get equipment sooner, or get better equipment, a better U-boat, more productive patrol areas, etc. because you're a successful commander. On the other hand, I strongly dislike my rank tied to renown that goes down when I use said influence, and I dislike as well that I'll never get any upgrades no matter how long they've been out. And I also loathe the fact that, if you 'buy' a special torpedo but don't use it by the time you finish your patrol, you lose it and the spent renown!

I've decided to switch how renown works for me. I hope some wiser heads can help me do the final tweaking here.

I've decided to set the renown cost for everything except U-boats to zero. That way my rank --which is based upon renown-- won't be effected. I'm going to keep a scratch pad by my desk, with two columns. The left column will be total renown, while the right one is current.

If I want to upgrade, whatever the 'cost' of that upgrade will be deducted from the right column. As long as there is enough renown to cover the upgrade I can get it.

For example, say at the start of my 5th patrol my total renown is 5,000, and my current is 1,000 (because I've been upgrading). At the end of that patrol my total renown is now 6,500. I'd record 6,500 underneath the 5,000 in the left column. The difference between 6,500 and 5,000 is 1,500, which I'd then add to the right column, now giving me 2,500 renown available as 'influence' to get upgrades.

Where I need help, advice, suggestions, etc is this: I do feel that, as time passes, that the renown cost of things should decrease. Does anyone have ideas as to what would be a reasonable 'depreciation'?

Sailor Steve · 05-14-10, 10:10 AM

NYGM does exactly that. They removed the renown requirements and made the wait time for new items be longer. It has a subtitle: "Tonnage War".

Jimbuna · 05-14-10, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lafeeverted

I am re-reading it now

I do not see a delta renown folder/file? In my career save file there is a line that is renown=500.000. Is that the line to change?

Go to C:\Documents and Settings\Jim\My Documents\GWX\data\cfg\Careers\Kaleuns name

You will see a CFG named Patrols_0 open it as a text file and the third line from the bottom is DeltaRenown....change that figure to any number you wish.....but only after you have docked at the end of a patrol.

PappyCain · 05-14-10, 10:22 AM

I wait until I have accumulated 7K - the Donitz himself sez 'give that man a new boat and whatever he needs!!'

sharkbit · 05-14-10, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedwardson

Just curious, is "Iron Coffins" thought of as a bad book?

Here's a thread in the SH5 forum about it:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...highlight=iron

Not the first thread about the book and won't be the last one either.

A good story(I just re-read it a month ago) but take some things with a grain of salt.

lafeeverted · 05-14-10, 10:42 AM

Thanks Jimbuna, I overlooked that section of the file

I did the like the way NYGM handled renown. If the equipmwnt was available you should be able to have it at no "cost" to you. My question would be, has it been modded or can it be modded so that the upgrades are limited as they were historically. Just because a new and iproved version was made available by time, they were not avaible for everyone. Can they be tied to flotillas that actually recieved them at a certain date ?

I have also wanted to change it so at the beginning of the war you have better trained crews. Do I do that through SH3 commander?

Jimbuna · 05-14-10, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lafeeverted

Thanks Jimbuna, I overlooked that section of the file

Your welcome

Hook · 05-14-10, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmy41

Renown, from my understanding, is simply a point system to somewhat simulate that the better you do, the more toys you can use. We all know that such is not true in real life, as if they had 20 XXIs available, they wouldnt just send out 5 of them because only 5 captains were prestigious enough to captain one.

Usually it's the other way around. There are 20 captains and 5 new submarines. Who gets the upgrade in a case like that? The guy with the most renown.

It's unfortunate that the game didn't make you use renown to buy promotions for yourself, permanently spending the renown points. This would get people's head in the right place about promotions and personal rank.

Of course, it is sometimes possible to take a cut in rank to get some juicy assignment in real life, so maybe the game isn't that far off after all.

Hook

pickinthebanjo · 05-14-10, 04:45 PM

Renown is related to promotions to some extent.

frau kaleun · 05-14-10, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickinthebanjo

Renown is related to promotions to some extent.

Yeah, but only in the sense that the game auto-promotes you once your renown goes above a certain level. However if you then choose to spend some of that renown on upgrades, and it drops you below the amount necessary to hold a certain rank, it demotes you back again.

If instead you could choose to spend x amount of renown on a promotion, you'd have that rank and keep it - but you'd lose however much renown it cost you, and not be able to buy a new boat or upgrades until you went out and accumulated more. Still not perfect since having more renown should IMO allow for both a promotion AND access to mo' better stuff without having to choose between the two... but IMO it's better than being auto-demoted because your renown qualified you for an upgrade on equipment and you chose to take advantage of that.

Sailor Steve · 05-14-10, 07:00 PM

Agreed. Promotions should be based on time-in-rank plus a renown-based bonus, and should be permanent and not cost anything.

schlechter pfennig · 05-14-10, 07:07 PM

Just curious what people think of my idea. And if you have any suggestions as to a logical time decremation for upgrade costs.

Zedwardson · 05-14-10, 07:12 PM

The computer should keep track of your total renown earned, and once you get over X amount, you should get promoted, even if renown in burned obtaining equipment.

The fact is if you want to be realistic, there was shortages all the time in the war, and you would have a dozen commanders and potential XO's for each new U-boat.

LGN1 · 05-15-10, 06:06 AM

Another annoying aspect of the renown system is that it is independent of the boat you are using. Sinking three ships per patrol in a Type II is very good, but gives you the same renown as sinking three ships in a Type VII.

Starting the war in a Type II and trying to get a VII is quite hard. I guess a commander who did 3-4 successful patrols in a Type II got a Type VII. Assuming that on average you can sink 3 ships with a total of 500 renown per patrol (that's quite hard), you need at least 4 patrols to get a VIIB in GWX (assuming 500 starting renown). So, before you can get a VIIB you have to sink 12 ships. I don't think any commander ever sunk 12 ships in a Type II.

In order to take into account the influence of growing experience, I have re-activated the renown you get for reaching a grid and the objective. Thus, I get some renown just for surviving and the increasing experience.

fw66 · 05-15-10, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LGN1

Another annoying aspect of the renown system is that it is independent of the boat you are using. Sinking three ships per patrol in a Type II is very good, but gives you the same renown as sinking three ships in a Type VII.

Starting the war in a Type II and trying to get a VII is quite hard. I guess a commander who did 3-4 successful patrols in a Type II got a Type VII. Assuming that on average you can sink 3 ships with a total of 500 renown per patrol (that's quite hard), you need at least 4 patrols to get a VIIB in GWX (assuming 500 starting renown). So, before you can get a VIIB you have to sink 12 ships. I don't think any commander ever sunk 12 ships in a Type II.

In order to take into account the influence of growing experience, I have re-activated the renown you get for reaching a grid and the objective. Thus, I get some renown just for surviving and the increasing experience.

You could also complete the 'exams' in training and then you enter the war with much more renown meaning you have to complete fewer successful patrols in a type II.

It seems silly to get this renown just for completing these boring missions, but it makes sense that a commander who was 'top of the class' would be given a more modern boat with longer range, more torpedoes etc ahead of others.

05-14-10, 10:10 AM	#17
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	NYGM does exactly that. They removed the renown requirements and made the wait time for new items be longer. It has a subtitle: "Tonnage War". __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

05-14-10, 10:22 AM	#19
PappyCain Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: on the Atlantic Ocean Posts: 559 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I wait until I have accumulated 7K - the Donitz himself sez 'give that man a new boat and whatever he needs!!' __________________ DID, no cheats, no shortcuts, no non-historic equipment deviations. Boat and crew safety is integral with my immersion style! Follow the historic events during your patrol: http://www.uboat.net/today.html

05-14-10, 07:00 PM	#26
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Agreed. Promotions should be based on time-in-rank plus a renown-based bonus, and should be permanent and not cost anything. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

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05-14-10, 10:05 AM	#16
schlechter pfennig Commander Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 462 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 7	I'm none too pleased about how the renown system works, either. On the one hand, I agree with picturing using one's renown to 'play politics' and get equipment sooner, or get better equipment, a better U-boat, more productive patrol areas, etc. because you're a successful commander. On the other hand, I strongly dislike my rank tied to renown that goes down when I use said influence, and I dislike as well that I'll never get any upgrades no matter how long they've been out. And I also loathe the fact that, if you 'buy' a special torpedo but don't use it by the time you finish your patrol, you lose it and the spent renown! I've decided to switch how renown works for me. I hope some wiser heads can help me do the final tweaking here. I've decided to set the renown cost for everything except U-boats to zero. That way my rank --which is based upon renown-- won't be effected. I'm going to keep a scratch pad by my desk, with two columns. The left column will be total renown, while the right one is current. If I want to upgrade, whatever the 'cost' of that upgrade will be deducted from the right column. As long as there is enough renown to cover the upgrade I can get it. For example, say at the start of my 5th patrol my total renown is 5,000, and my current is 1,000 (because I've been upgrading). At the end of that patrol my total renown is now 6,500. I'd record 6,500 underneath the 5,000 in the left column. The difference between 6,500 and 5,000 is 1,500, which I'd then add to the right column, now giving me 2,500 renown available as 'influence' to get upgrades. Where I need help, advice, suggestions, etc is this: I do feel that, as time passes, that the renown cost of things should decrease. Does anyone have ideas as to what would be a reasonable 'depreciation'?

05-14-10, 10:42 AM	#21
lafeeverted Chief Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 329 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Thanks Jimbuna, I overlooked that section of the file I did the like the way NYGM handled renown. If the equipmwnt was available you should be able to have it at no "cost" to you. My question would be, has it been modded or can it be modded so that the upgrades are limited as they were historically. Just because a new and iproved version was made available by time, they were not avaible for everyone. Can they be tied to flotillas that actually recieved them at a certain date ? I have also wanted to change it so at the beginning of the war you have better trained crews. Do I do that through SH3 commander?

05-14-10, 04:45 PM	#24
pickinthebanjo Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 651 Downloads: 282 Uploads: 0	Renown is related to promotions to some extent.

05-14-10, 07:07 PM	#27
schlechter pfennig Commander Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 462 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 7	Just curious what people think of my idea. And if you have any suggestions as to a logical time decremation for upgrade costs.

05-14-10, 07:12 PM	#28
Zedwardson Sparky Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 154 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The computer should keep track of your total renown earned, and once you get over X amount, you should get promoted, even if renown in burned obtaining equipment. The fact is if you want to be realistic, there was shortages all the time in the war, and you would have a dozen commanders and potential XO's for each new U-boat.

05-15-10, 06:06 AM	#29
LGN1 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,138 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 12	Another annoying aspect of the renown system is that it is independent of the boat you are using. Sinking three ships per patrol in a Type II is very good, but gives you the same renown as sinking three ships in a Type VII. Starting the war in a Type II and trying to get a VII is quite hard. I guess a commander who did 3-4 successful patrols in a Type II got a Type VII. Assuming that on average you can sink 3 ships with a total of 500 renown per patrol (that's quite hard), you need at least 4 patrols to get a VIIB in GWX (assuming 500 starting renown). So, before you can get a VIIB you have to sink 12 ships. I don't think any commander ever sunk 12 ships in a Type II. In order to take into account the influence of growing experience, I have re-activated the renown you get for reaching a grid and the objective. Thus, I get some renown just for surviving and the increasing experience.