Obama to approve offshore drilling - Page 2

UnderseaLcpl · 03-31-10, 03:40 PM

I know I've been gone for a little while, mostly owing to my school obligations, but I wonder if I might not still be welcome to posit an opinion.

It seems to me that this particular stance is not so much a product of Obama's (or the Democratic party's) willingness to compromise their stance as it does their willingness to adjust their voter demographics. Historically, the major American political parties have adjusted their stances to fit whatever movements seemed to be popular at the time, and then the other party takes the opposite tack, by neccesity.

What I see happening now is the left moving to encompass a section of the conservative vote. That's it, and that is all. Their platform is gradually shifting to combat the backlash against state spending and government whilst preserving their original demographic as much as possible. The Republican party is gradually changing to oppose this, as evidenced by the strong "anti-socialist" platform that their constiuency has been developing, and which has begun to recieve media and congressional support. That's a simplification, but overall the trends appear fairly evident.

The thing that concerns me most is that many Americans, and voters in other democracies and republics do not seem to notice this. My classmates, for one, do not seem to realize that political parties and their platforms are not set in stone. They are political institutions, and like any other institution that wishes to continue existing, they pander to the those that give them power. I'm sure that sounds like common sense to most of you, but you'd be surprised by how many people seem to think that immutable battle lines have been drawn.

To put it simply: "It's the politics, stupid". I forget who said that, but it rings true to this day. The US of A is playing host to a parasitical government. They'll promise us whatever we want, so long as we let them make the rules. It would not surprise me one bit if a successful Democratic platform in 2010 and 2012 caused Republicans to shift to an anti-drilling platform. It won't likely happen that quickly, but the pattern is evident in the history of politics.

I, for one, don't even know why the government is allowed to place restrictions, price caps, and other legal restraints on domestic oil. Quite simply, it is none of their God damn business. I know how they did it, using the constitutional power of tariffs and the interstate commerce clause, but I don't understand where in the hell they got the idea that the power to raise tariffs gave them the right to sequester sectors of industry. Tariffs were supposed to be a means of raising revenue, not dictating trade policy. If the government were supposed to have the power to dictate trade and mercantile policy, the constitution would have included such a power.

What we see in this kind of action is politicians pandering to voters. That's the system we provided them with, that's the system by which they advance their careers, and this is what we are always going to get. Wise national policy in the US is a myth, and it has been for nearly 100 years, arguably more.

What we do in the future depends entirely upon what we believe as a nation. If we really believe that a pair of all-powerful and incredibly similar political parties can represent our collective interests adequately we will reap what we have sown. If we commit to the belief in individual liberty and responsibility, we will reap what we have sown. I have long been an advocate of the latter approach, but if America wishes to be lulled to sleep by the promises of a political industry, so be it. Perhaps our time to step down has come.

I, however, will not go down without a fight.

Sailor Steve · 03-31-10, 03:45 PM

Hey, James! Good to hear from you again!

03-31-10, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I, however, will not go down without a fight.

Yes! Fiiiight! Fight, fight, fight...!

Who's fighting who?

Jimbuna · 03-31-10, 04:09 PM

Welcome back James

UnderseaLcpl · 03-31-10, 04:30 PM

A little James goes a long way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Who's fighting who?

To put it in the most succinct terms possible; Individualists vs. Collectivists. The whole of conflict in human history can pretty much be divided into those two groups.

From an anthropological standpoint, this is a fundamental tenet of human nature, and that of primates in general.

Sailor Steve · 03-31-10, 04:40 PM

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Jimbuna · 03-31-10, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Similarly like husband and wife

03-31-10, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

To put it in the most succinct terms possible; Individualists vs. Collectivists. The whole of conflict in human history can pretty much be divided into those two groups.

From an anthropological standpoint, this is a fundamental tenet of human nature, and that of primates in general.

Well I'm not sure which I am but I just like fights.

Torvald Von Mansee · 03-31-10, 04:55 PM

You know, I haven't read this thread, but I presume the conservatives are all for this and are lauding Obama for doing so. Right?? RIGHT??

Sailor Steve · 03-31-10, 04:57 PM

Read the thread and find out.

Jimbuna · 03-31-10, 05:00 PM

Hey!...I thought the Chinese had bought all the drilling rights off the US coastline

SteamWake · 03-31-10, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I know I've been gone for a little while, mostly owing to my school obligations, but I wonder if I might not still be welcome to posit an opinion.

Opinions always welcome

Welcome back.

SteamWake · 03-31-10, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Hey!...I thought the Chinese had bought all the drilling rights off the US coastline

No they are parking their rigs outside the 'rights' area then drill horizontally into it.

Jimbuna · 03-31-10, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

No they are parking their rigs outside the 'rights' area then drill horizontally into it.

A little like us Brits down in the Falklands

CaptainHaplo · 03-31-10, 05:21 PM

I am seriously disappointed in yet another lost opportunity - this is once again a political shell game. Leases for drilling that were a go - revoked. Meaning money spent to drill - wasted. Now we open up another area - that will take 10 years to develop - while closing off another. If this was real, then let what is already in the works continue - and add to it.

Plus - how petty - Alaska had off shore leases that were in the works that are slammed shut now - but of course, that has nothing to do with opposition politics....

Nothing but smoke and mirrors.

03-31-10, 03:40 PM	#16
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I know I've been gone for a little while, mostly owing to my school obligations, but I wonder if I might not still be welcome to posit an opinion. It seems to me that this particular stance is not so much a product of Obama's (or the Democratic party's) willingness to compromise their stance as it does their willingness to adjust their voter demographics. Historically, the major American political parties have adjusted their stances to fit whatever movements seemed to be popular at the time, and then the other party takes the opposite tack, by neccesity. What I see happening now is the left moving to encompass a section of the conservative vote. That's it, and that is all. Their platform is gradually shifting to combat the backlash against state spending and government whilst preserving their original demographic as much as possible. The Republican party is gradually changing to oppose this, as evidenced by the strong "anti-socialist" platform that their constiuency has been developing, and which has begun to recieve media and congressional support. That's a simplification, but overall the trends appear fairly evident. The thing that concerns me most is that many Americans, and voters in other democracies and republics do not seem to notice this. My classmates, for one, do not seem to realize that political parties and their platforms are not set in stone. They are political institutions, and like any other institution that wishes to continue existing, they pander to the those that give them power. I'm sure that sounds like common sense to most of you, but you'd be surprised by how many people seem to think that immutable battle lines have been drawn. To put it simply: "It's the politics, stupid". I forget who said that, but it rings true to this day. The US of A is playing host to a parasitical government. They'll promise us whatever we want, so long as we let them make the rules. It would not surprise me one bit if a successful Democratic platform in 2010 and 2012 caused Republicans to shift to an anti-drilling platform. It won't likely happen that quickly, but the pattern is evident in the history of politics. I, for one, don't even know why the government is allowed to place restrictions, price caps, and other legal restraints on domestic oil. Quite simply, it is none of their God damn business. I know how they did it, using the constitutional power of tariffs and the interstate commerce clause, but I don't understand where in the hell they got the idea that the power to raise tariffs gave them the right to sequester sectors of industry. Tariffs were supposed to be a means of raising revenue, not dictating trade policy. If the government were supposed to have the power to dictate trade and mercantile policy, the constitution would have included such a power. What we see in this kind of action is politicians pandering to voters. That's the system we provided them with, that's the system by which they advance their careers, and this is what we are always going to get. Wise national policy in the US is a myth, and it has been for nearly 100 years, arguably more. What we do in the future depends entirely upon what we believe as a nation. If we really believe that a pair of all-powerful and incredibly similar political parties can represent our collective interests adequately we will reap what we have sown. If we commit to the belief in individual liberty and responsibility, we will reap what we have sown. I have long been an advocate of the latter approach, but if America wishes to be lulled to sleep by the promises of a political industry, so be it. Perhaps our time to step down has come. I, however, will not go down without a fight. __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

03-31-10, 03:45 PM	#17
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Hey, James! Good to hear from you again! __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-31-10, 04:09 PM	#19
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,320 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Welcome back James __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-31-10, 04:40 PM	#21
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." -Robert A. Heinlein __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-31-10, 04:55 PM	#24
Torvald Von Mansee Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: CA4528 Posts: 1,693 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	You know, I haven't read this thread, but I presume the conservatives are all for this and are lauding Obama for doing so. Right?? RIGHT?? __________________ "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you" - Leon Trotsky

03-31-10, 04:57 PM	#25
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Read the thread and find out. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-31-10, 05:00 PM	#26
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,320 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Hey!...I thought the Chinese had bought all the drilling rights off the US coastline __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-31-10, 05:21 PM	#30
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,405 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I am seriously disappointed in yet another lost opportunity - this is once again a political shell game. Leases for drilling that were a go - revoked. Meaning money spent to drill - wasted. Now we open up another area - that will take 10 years to develop - while closing off another. If this was real, then let what is already in the works continue - and add to it. Plus - how petty - Alaska had off shore leases that were in the works that are slammed shut now - but of course, that has nothing to do with opposition politics.... Nothing but smoke and mirrors. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

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