Thermal Layers - Page 2

Jimbuna · 02-21-10, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I heard that with chef's rats ear soup Level 4 adds an uber buff to your listen and spot skillz +4 !

LMAO

Sailor Steve · 02-21-10, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

More often I imagine a sonar ping would just refract a ping below the IOR and give a false reading of the sub's location.

Like putting a straw in a glass of water.

Platapus · 02-21-10, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I heard that with chef's rats ear soup Level 4 adds an uber buff to your listen and spot skillz +4 !

I think Ubi is going to nerf that in one of the patches.

TarJak · 02-21-10, 05:56 PM

One of the factors that drove the lack of German advance in this area was the fact that in the Atlantic where most of their submarine ops took place, the thermal layers were commonly deeper than the subs were capable of diving anyway.

That's not to say that is true in all locations or conditions, just the most common conditions in the Atlantic.

onelifecrisis · 02-21-10, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platapus

I think Ubi is going to nerf that in one of the patches.

omgznooooo!!!!

jwilliams · 02-21-10, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I heard that with chef's rats ear soup Level 4 adds an uber buff to your listen and spot skillz +4 !

Do we get epix loot from the convoy boss??

Headphones of the Bat
+6 to listening
+4 to distance
equip = Detection of thermal layers

walsh2509 · 02-21-10, 09:29 PM

No knowledge of this , but even without knowing it or having the equipment to detect them , thermal layer were still there so any advantage passing down through one would still be valid.

Heretic · 02-21-10, 10:03 PM

If u-boats could not detect thermal layers and the only indication to the player is the crewman's announcement a la SH4, it would be a simple matter to replace that wav file with a blank.

SteamWake · 02-21-10, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heretic

If u-boats could not detect thermal layers and the only indication to the player is the crewman's announcement a la SH4, it would be a simple matter to replace that wav file with a blank.

and this is exactly the type of things that modders do bless them

Ducimus · 02-21-10, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeadler

You're correct, the German U-boats had no bathythermographs. They knew that these layers existed, but could not determine whether there is a termal layer in a given depth or if the boat is below or above a thermal layer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

One of the factors that drove the lack of German advance in this area was the fact that in the Atlantic where most of their submarine ops took place, the thermal layers were commonly deeper than the subs were capable of diving anyway.

That's not to say that is true in all locations or conditions, just the most common conditions in the Atlantic.

QFT

Steeltrap · 02-22-10, 12:40 AM

I seem to recall Erich Topp commenting on this in one of the videos around SH3's launch. I'm pretty sure he said they were aware of them, of course, and that they had no practical means of detecting them. He also said they would dive to a depth where, were any present, they were likely to have passed through them.

So they might be present, thus their effects should be modelled (including the modelling of their likelihood and strength), but you'd have no awareness of them.

Onkel Neal · 02-22-10, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeadler

You're correct, the German U-boats had no bathythermographs. They knew that these layers existed, but could not determine whether there is a termal layer in a given depth or if the boat is below or above a thermal layer.

Agreed, which is why the first thing I will do with my copy of SH5 is yank that speech file

JScones · 02-22-10, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

I seem to recall Erich Topp commenting on this in one of the videos around SH3's launch. I'm pretty sure he said they were aware of them, of course, and that they had no practical means of detecting them. He also said they would dive to a depth where, were any present, they were likely to have passed through them.

So they might be present, thus their effects should be modelled (including the modelling of their likelihood and strength), but you'd have no awareness of them.

I concur.

Letum · 02-22-10, 03:39 AM

I have been looking up the effects of thermal layers.
Interesting stuff.

They do cause ping echo. The sharper the gradient; the more the echo.
That means the sonar listener needs to listen for two return pings. One
from the thermal gradient and one from the uboat. That's a problem if
the uboat is at the same depth as the gradient, but not a problem if
the uboat is below the gradient.

They will refract pings too, but that won't be a big issue.

They might reflect a little of the uboat's noise, but not very much.
A uboat sitting just above the gradient will make slightly more noise as
some of the noise will bounce back up from the gradient to the DDs.

Herr Minger · 02-23-10, 04:17 AM

The reason I asked this question is that I'm reading 'Klebers Convoy' at the moment and Kleber continuously dives deep to get under the thermal layers that, according to the book, are prevalent in the colder waters of the Arctic. By the time the escorts get to him after picking him up on radar, they can't ping him. This is whilst he is shadowing a convoy in poor weather and in the dark. I am aware that this book is fiction but I would have thought the author has done his research. There is one problem though, I think that East of Bear Island and near the Skolpen Banks, the water isn't very deep although if its near 200 meters then that would be deep enough.

02-21-10, 10:03 PM	#23
Heretic Commodore Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 617 Downloads: 240 Uploads: 2	If u-boats could not detect thermal layers and the only indication to the player is the crewman's announcement a la SH4, it would be a simple matter to replace that wav file with a blank. __________________ - heretic I enjoy drinking beer. MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 - Updated 22 March MightyFine Less Annoying Footsteps Crew AI Scripting Information

02-22-10, 03:39 AM	#29
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I have been looking up the effects of thermal layers. Interesting stuff. They do cause ping echo. The sharper the gradient; the more the echo. That means the sonar listener needs to listen for two return pings. One from the thermal gradient and one from the uboat. That's a problem if the uboat is at the same depth as the gradient, but not a problem if the uboat is below the gradient. They will refract pings too, but that won't be a big issue. They might reflect a little of the uboat's noise, but not very much. A uboat sitting just above the gradient will make slightly more noise as some of the noise will bounce back up from the gradient to the DDs. __________________

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02-21-10, 05:56 PM	#19
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	One of the factors that drove the lack of German advance in this area was the fact that in the Atlantic where most of their submarine ops took place, the thermal layers were commonly deeper than the subs were capable of diving anyway. That's not to say that is true in all locations or conditions, just the most common conditions in the Atlantic.

02-21-10, 09:29 PM	#22
walsh2509 XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 410 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	No knowledge of this , but even without knowing it or having the equipment to detect them , thermal layer were still there so any advantage passing down through one would still be valid.

02-22-10, 12:40 AM	#26
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I seem to recall Erich Topp commenting on this in one of the videos around SH3's launch. I'm pretty sure he said they were aware of them, of course, and that they had no practical means of detecting them. He also said they would dive to a depth where, were any present, they were likely to have passed through them. So they might be present, thus their effects should be modelled (including the modelling of their likelihood and strength), but you'd have no awareness of them.

02-23-10, 04:17 AM	#30
Herr Minger Soundman Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Wales UK Posts: 147 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	The reason I asked this question is that I'm reading 'Klebers Convoy' at the moment and Kleber continuously dives deep to get under the thermal layers that, according to the book, are prevalent in the colder waters of the Arctic. By the time the escorts get to him after picking him up on radar, they can't ping him. This is whilst he is shadowing a convoy in poor weather and in the dark. I am aware that this book is fiction but I would have thought the author has done his research. There is one problem though, I think that East of Bear Island and near the Skolpen Banks, the water isn't very deep although if its near 200 meters then that would be deep enough.