China improving its military potence rapidly

[PhantomLord]

*fixed* sorry i was laughing too hard

btw this tool is nice... but unluckily not available in europe at this time.

[Schroeder]

If I had not been convinced before that it is impossible to win a war against China I surely would be now.

[CaptainHaplo]

China is becoming more direct and challenging in its dealings with Washington. That has little to do with the tactical or strategic matters of Taiwan (Formosa), and much to do with the person sitting in the chair as President.

China would have little struggle taking Taiwan, it would simply have a hard time holding on to it - IF the US followed through on its obligations. I for one think China could invade and the current administration would make alot of noise, but do nothing.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

China is becoming more direct and challenging in its dealings with Washington. That has little to do with the tactical or strategic matters of Taiwan (Formosa), and much to do with the person sitting in the chair as President.

China would have little struggle taking Taiwan, it would simply have a hard time holding on to it - IF the US followed through on its obligations. I for one think China could invade and the current administration would make alot of noise, but do nothing.

Agreed, but that military footage was quite impressive.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Oberon

LOL I'm reading that right now! Soooo.... don't spoil it I'm at the part where the PLA has just started to cross the Russian border and the US is moving the armored troops on the trans-Siberian railway.

Originally Posted by Oberon

I do ponder when they'll make their final move with Taiwan, they're patient, I'll give them that, and they plan faaaar ahead, but I can't see their patience lasting forever, particularly when they finish their naval plans.
The make or break question is, what does the US do? I don't think there's a lot they can do, although it would be a political disaster to lose Taiwan to the PRC and not have the US attempt to support Taiwan because it would signal to all the little independence movements within China which have been suppressed over the years (Tibet comes to mind) that the ally they bank all their hopes on will not and cannot support them. The myth of American invincibility will be shattered and give great encouragement to all the US's enemies.
If the US does protect though, it's going to be hit hard and it knows it.

Well their naval building has not focused on increasing the number of Anphibs much rather on increasing their capability. China has been getting rid of a lot of its older ships lately rather than hanging on to them when they have newer ships in the fleet.

This is an interesting read on the subject of China invading Taiwan:
www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2009/RAND_MG888.pdf
^use direct link and not the linked text.

[Task Force]

@ PhantomLord
Wow, the swiss army knife of shovels.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

LOL I'm reading that right now! Soooo.... don't spoil it I'm at the part where the PLA has just started to cross the Russian border and the US is moving the armored troops on the trans-Siberian railway.



Well their naval building has not focused on increasing the number of Anphibs much rather on increasing their capability. China has been getting rid of a lot of its older ships lately rather than hanging on to them when they have newer ships in the fleet.

This is an intresting read on the subject of China invading Taiwan.

I won't say anything other than I was slightly disappointed with the ending, but otherwise not too bad. Not RSR level though.
Thanks for the link, although you might want to knock the radio-room link off the front of it because at the moment it's sending to Subsim front page, I managed to twig the link you meant to post though I will have a read through of that in a bit.

Oh...and...DAMN I WANT one of those shovels NOW!!

[Weiss Pinguin]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I won't say anything other than I was slightly disappointed with the ending, but otherwise not too bad. Not RSR level though.

Been wanting to get some new books for a while, I may have to try to catch up with Jack Ryan

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

Been wanting to get some new books for a while, I may have to try to catch up with Jack Ryan

You might want to check out The Third World War by General Sir John Hackett as well if you haven't already. Good reading, a bit heavy in some places but good.


I've thought of another use for that shovel. Cooking Pan. I've seen Russian soldiers use their shovels in that way before, so it shouldn't be too difficult to do the same thing. Heck, steam train drivers in the UK cooked (and still cook) with their coal shovels, so if they can, the Chinese sure can too!

[Ducimus]

Personally, i think we'll eventually be at war with Iran, or china, or both at some point in the future. China is becoming a superpower, and it's going to flex its muscle at some point.

China is also, from what i can tell, the industralized nation that the US was during WW2. If we were in an open war with them, they'd probably outproduce us both in warm bodies, and war material from all the manufactering capability that used to be here, but is now there. Yeah we'll be strong in our conviction that because were America we'll endure and prevail, but the thing is America was bought, sold and traded for years ago, and China owns a good portion of it.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Personally, i think we'll eventually be at war with Iran, or china, or both at some point in the future. China is becoming a superpower, and it's going to flex its muscle at some point.

China is also, from what i can tell, the industralized nation that the US was during WW2. If we were in an open war with them, they'd probably outproduce us both in warm bodies, and war material from all the manufactering capability that used to be here, but is now there. Yeah we'll be strong in our conviction that because were America we'll endure and prevail, but the thing is America was bought, sold and traded for years ago, and China owns a good portion of it.

Not challenging what you say but I hope the US will continue to prevail.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

China would have little struggle taking Taiwan, it would simply have a hard time holding on to it - IF the US followed through on its obligations. I for one think China could invade and the current administration would make alot of noise, but do nothing.

How many American lives is Taiwan worth?

[CaptainHaplo]

Platypus - its not really a question of how many "American" lives is Taiwan worth.....

What matters is we are obligated under treaty to protect and defend Taiwan.

The question should thus be - How many lives are worth America honoring its treaty obligations......

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

What matters is we are obligated under treaty to protect and defend Taiwan.

Which treaty is this?

The Mutual Defense Treaty was ended by the United States in 1980
http://www.taiwandocuments.org/mutual01.htm

The Taiwan Relations Act is not a treaty but a federal law. The wording of the act is an example of the art of obfuscation and ambiguity. Nowhere in the act, nor in the Six Assurances, does it legally obligate that the United States will engage the PRC in military action if the PRC invades Taiwan.

The TRA is a delicate balancing act concerning our relationships with both sides. It leaves just enough ambiguity not to get the Chinese spun up too much, but just enough clarity to keep the Taiwanese spun-down.

I suppose I should not resist making a pun about being caught between a ROC and a hard place.

The TRA does obligate the US to sell defensive arms to Taiwan.

Few Presidents, Republican or Democratic, seem eager to back themselves into a most unpleasant corner on this issue.

This article gives a pretty good summation of the issue:
http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/20...nse_huang.aspx

All the TRA does is give the President the option of taking military action, but since he already has that power, that portion of the TRA is moot as it, in no way, legally obligates the President to take military action.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Platapus

How many American lives is Taiwan worth?

Is Taiwan, really any of our business to begin with?