New guy has lots of questions - Page 2

sergei · 12-12-09, 09:33 PM

Leave the escort. Your job is to sink merchants.
Fine, if it is a lightly escorted convoy, and the escort is on a steady course, then go for it.
But otherwise ignore the escorts and maneuver into a good firing position to sink some freighters.
Wait for the lead escort to run by you.
Their SOP is to run straight for 20 mins or so, then they will pick a direction left or right of the convoys track and circle it. Do not let this freak you out. They are just fishing.
As long as they are not heading straight for you with a bone between their teeth you can be pretty sure they do not know where you are.
Again - DO NOT PANIC!
Be about two or three of thousand yards off of his track so that if he does start circling towards you he does not run straight over you.
Stay silent and patient!

sergei · 12-12-09, 09:34 PM

Ah good point 'I'm goin down'.
I play lots of early war careers so I did not anticipate radar usage!

Col. Caldwell · 12-12-09, 09:42 PM

I usually don't target the escorts unless they detect me. I prefer to attack the merchants first, then deal with the escorts later.

sergei · 12-12-09, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Col. Caldwell

I usually don't target the escorts unless they detect me. I prefer to attack the merchants first, then deal with the escorts later.

Yeah, I usually deal with them by running away praying to God they don't get me this time!

mello85 · 12-12-09, 10:14 PM

I have been sinking entire convoys up until now, I guess I must have just been getting lucky. Normally when the escort DDs travel in a straight line I can sink them easily, then I surface and clean up the merchant ships with the deck gun. I have never had a destroyer "fish" like the one I encountered just now. Then again I also have never taken on large convoys...just regular ones (3 escort ships max)

I only destroyed 2 out of the 4 destroyers and 1 merchant ship in that particular convoy before they got away. Not a bad day, but I was hoping for more.

Sinking the destroyers is so much more rewarding than destroying the merchant ships :P

magic452 · 12-13-09, 02:12 AM

When you encounter a zig zaging DD have your sonar man fallow the nearest warship, If he suddenly picks up speed to fast, he's got you pegged dive and get out of there or be prepared to fight. If he's heading at you but at the same speed he's most likely fishing. Don't leave the fallow nearest WS on too long as the sonar won't update the rest of the convoy.

It is rewarding to sink escorts so enjoy it while you can "cause as you go to manual targeting it is much more difficult to do. That's why I suggested you play go slow and enjoy each new thing you add.

Take it easy on the ships and save a few for me.

Magic

mello85 · 12-13-09, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic452

Take it easy on the ships and save a few for me.

hehe, oh I'm sure there are plenty

I just sank my first heavy cruiser... that was pretty darn sweet. Placed 4 torpedoes in his starboard, he blew up real good

Note the date at the top of the screenshot...8/05/1942

This is on the same patrol, no other ships were engaged between now and when I sank the cruiser...again note the date...8/12/1942. So it's 7 days after, and my torpedo tubes are still not reloaded...what gives!?

I feel like I should mention I did change some realism settings, realistic reload times is one that I enabled. Surely this isn't making my crew reload so slow is it?

I'm gonna hit the rack and call it quits tonight, again thanks a lot for your continued help folks...

WarlordATF · 12-13-09, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Some mods are eye candy (i.e. the great white shark mod).

Not trying to hijack this thread, but where can i find this mod?

I'm goin' down · 12-13-09, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarlordATF

Not trying to hijack this thread, but where can i find this mod?

I could not find the thread. I have seen it twice. I downloaded it once and activated it ,but never saw any fish. I suggest posting in either the main forum of the mod forum.

magic452 · 12-13-09, 03:52 AM

Realistic reload should not take that long. Make sure that you are not on silent running. No reloading will take place when silent.
# 1 has started in but work stopped so silent running may by why.
If you stay on silent or battle station too long the crew gets fatigued and stop work.

Tip # 1 battle stations will get the torpedoes loaded faster, but remember to turn it off.

Magic

mello85 · 12-14-09, 12:22 AM

yeah, thats exactly what it was. I turned it on to make a quiet getaway and didn't turn it off.

Sniper297 · 12-14-09, 02:25 PM

One correction, the outer circle for ships with sonar (which is the only circle for ships without) is the visual range, most Japanese ships didn't have radar even late in the war.

If you're on the surface, given the conditions of ideal visibility (clear weather, calm seas, daylight) and alert lookouts (warships have better lookouts than merchants) they will see you if you're inside that outer circle. Darkness, rain, fog, heavy seas, speed, and other factors reduce the range, if you're moving slowly and flooded down to 25 feet ("decks awash") and facing directly toward or away from the target you can get much closer without being seen. Obviously if you're submerged you can't be seen.

The smaller circle for an escort is the passive sonar, the arc cut out at the back is noise interference from his own propellers - if you're behind him he can't hear your propellers, he can only hear his own. Anywhere else in that yellow area he might or might not hear you depending on how close you are and how much noise you're making, running at high speed and loading torpedoes close to him is considered "bad".

The red half circle is the active sonar, the "pings". Best way to avoid both is to go deep, when you hear "Passing thermal layer!", go down another 50 to 60 feet below that and his pinging will bounce off the layer. Sneak away quietly, I generally use the compass tool to draw a five mile circle from point of last contact, when I'm outside that it's safe to come back to periscope depth and look around.

I'm goin' down · 12-14-09, 02:57 PM

sniper, great post.

I started a thread called Sonar and AI revisited (i think that is what is was called). In it I included Ducimus' link explaining the concepts of sonar, etc. Rockin Robbins posted that the thread was very useful and he intended to include it in his Captain's tricks, etc. sticky in the SH4 fourm. You might want to call his attention to your post above, and suggest that it be included in his sticky thread. It is well displayed and an excellent explanation/tutorial.

Sniper297 · 12-14-09, 03:49 PM

Well, I was a US Navy Aviation ASW Tech so you would THINK I'd have a head start on this, but sometimes I think the AI destroyers are cheating and using the Psychic Friends Hotline or something. They did model the capabilities and limitations of WWII sonar fairly well, so in general try to avoid high speed running in that passive sonar arc, stay out of the active arc, and after the attack go deep and get under a thermal layer to sneak away at low speed. The AI is pretty simple, instead of changing course after detecting a sub they usually continue on the original course, with some of the escorts continuing to search in the area of the lost contact. They rarely if ever do expanding searches, so of you move away from the original course line at 90 degrees for at least five miles, you can almost always surface and start another end-around run from there.

PurpleCity · 12-14-09, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello85

Excellent stuff, thanks gentlemen. It will take me a while to soak up all the information in the guides you guys have linked to, so I should be pretty busy for a while

I am truly amazed at the amount of depth in this game...(pun intended

)
There is so much more I have yet to learn. I've got the basic idea of what to do, but I still feel like I'm making noob mistakes...I'm playing on 0 realism, but I think it's time to start switching some of those realism settings on. For instance I find myself getting in the habit of using the ahead flank speed way too often, which with limited fuel turned on would equate to a relatively short trip I imagine...

Thanks a bunch guys

It took me about a year before I started using manual targeting. Pointing your periscope and firing is a good great for learning the basics, but there's nothing like the truly satisfying feeling you get after sinking a ship by manually calculating (or even guesstimating) a firing solution.

12-12-09, 09:42 PM	#18
Col. Caldwell Gunner Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 100 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	I usually don't target the escorts unless they detect me. I prefer to attack the merchants first, then deal with the escorts later. __________________ Craig Ferguson: "Shouldn't they be hunting Godzilla? A whale isn't going to destroy Tokyo; Godzilla is!"

12-13-09, 02:12 AM	#21
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	When you encounter a zig zaging DD have your sonar man fallow the nearest warship, If he suddenly picks up speed to fast, he's got you pegged dive and get out of there or be prepared to fight. If he's heading at you but at the same speed he's most likely fishing. Don't leave the fallow nearest WS on too long as the sonar won't update the rest of the convoy. It is rewarding to sink escorts so enjoy it while you can "cause as you go to manual targeting it is much more difficult to do. That's why I suggested you play go slow and enjoy each new thing you add. Take it easy on the ships and save a few for me. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

12-13-09, 03:52 AM	#25
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Realistic reload should not take that long. Make sure that you are not on silent running. No reloading will take place when silent. # 1 has started in but work stopped so silent running may by why. If you stay on silent or battle station too long the crew gets fatigued and stop work. Tip # 1 battle stations will get the torpedoes loaded faster, but remember to turn it off. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

12-14-09, 02:57 PM	#28
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	sniper sniper, great post. I started a thread called Sonar and AI revisited (i think that is what is was called). In it I included Ducimus' link explaining the concepts of sonar, etc. Rockin Robbins posted that the thread was very useful and he intended to include it in his Captain's tricks, etc. sticky in the SH4 fourm. You might want to call his attention to your post above, and suggest that it be included in his sticky thread. It is well displayed and an excellent explanation/tutorial.

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12-12-09, 09:33 PM	#16
sergei Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 1,788 Downloads: 405 Uploads: 29	Leave the escort. Your job is to sink merchants. Fine, if it is a lightly escorted convoy, and the escort is on a steady course, then go for it. But otherwise ignore the escorts and maneuver into a good firing position to sink some freighters. Wait for the lead escort to run by you. Their SOP is to run straight for 20 mins or so, then they will pick a direction left or right of the convoys track and circle it. Do not let this freak you out. They are just fishing. As long as they are not heading straight for you with a bone between their teeth you can be pretty sure they do not know where you are. Again - DO NOT PANIC! Be about two or three of thousand yards off of his track so that if he does start circling towards you he does not run straight over you. Stay silent and patient!

12-12-09, 09:34 PM	#17
sergei Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 1,788 Downloads: 405 Uploads: 29	Ah good point 'I'm goin down'. I play lots of early war careers so I did not anticipate radar usage!

12-12-09, 10:14 PM	#20
mello85 Seaman Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 39 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I have been sinking entire convoys up until now, I guess I must have just been getting lucky. Normally when the escort DDs travel in a straight line I can sink them easily, then I surface and clean up the merchant ships with the deck gun. I have never had a destroyer "fish" like the one I encountered just now. Then again I also have never taken on large convoys...just regular ones (3 escort ships max) I only destroyed 2 out of the 4 destroyers and 1 merchant ship in that particular convoy before they got away. Not a bad day, but I was hoping for more. Sinking the destroyers is so much more rewarding than destroying the merchant ships :P

12-14-09, 12:22 AM	#26
mello85 Seaman Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 39 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	yeah, thats exactly what it was. I turned it on to make a quiet getaway and didn't turn it off.

12-14-09, 02:25 PM	#27
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	One correction, the outer circle for ships with sonar (which is the only circle for ships without) is the visual range, most Japanese ships didn't have radar even late in the war. If you're on the surface, given the conditions of ideal visibility (clear weather, calm seas, daylight) and alert lookouts (warships have better lookouts than merchants) they will see you if you're inside that outer circle. Darkness, rain, fog, heavy seas, speed, and other factors reduce the range, if you're moving slowly and flooded down to 25 feet ("decks awash") and facing directly toward or away from the target you can get much closer without being seen. Obviously if you're submerged you can't be seen. The smaller circle for an escort is the passive sonar, the arc cut out at the back is noise interference from his own propellers - if you're behind him he can't hear your propellers, he can only hear his own. Anywhere else in that yellow area he might or might not hear you depending on how close you are and how much noise you're making, running at high speed and loading torpedoes close to him is considered "bad". The red half circle is the active sonar, the "pings". Best way to avoid both is to go deep, when you hear "Passing thermal layer!", go down another 50 to 60 feet below that and his pinging will bounce off the layer. Sneak away quietly, I generally use the compass tool to draw a five mile circle from point of last contact, when I'm outside that it's safe to come back to periscope depth and look around.

12-14-09, 03:49 PM	#29
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Well, I was a US Navy Aviation ASW Tech so you would THINK I'd have a head start on this, but sometimes I think the AI destroyers are cheating and using the Psychic Friends Hotline or something. They did model the capabilities and limitations of WWII sonar fairly well, so in general try to avoid high speed running in that passive sonar arc, stay out of the active arc, and after the attack go deep and get under a thermal layer to sneak away at low speed. The AI is pretty simple, instead of changing course after detecting a sub they usually continue on the original course, with some of the escorts continuing to search in the area of the lost contact. They rarely if ever do expanding searches, so of you move away from the original course line at 90 degrees for at least five miles, you can almost always surface and start another end-around run from there.