Al Franken Heads to Washington - Page 2

Tchocky · 07-01-09, 02:10 AM

I liked Franken's radio show (seems like nobody else did, mind), and he does seem to take this fairly seriously. I wonder how he'll do as a Senator

Skybird · 07-01-09, 05:49 AM

Filibustering means that an elected minority is given a power as if it were no minority but equal in strength to the elected majority. But democratic elections are meant to create majorities and minorities, while the filibusters tries to reject and/or distort that. In other words it is an abuse of or a distortion of democratic basic principles. In europe, several nations have had pendants to the filibuster in their past (and some until today), in Germany'S Weimarer Republic they knew it under the name of "Obstruktion". In the reforming of Germany after WWII, it was wisely decided not to make this mistake again, and Bundestag and Bundesrat-speeches are limited in time therefore. Both houses should come to decisons by arguments, not by playing tricks and cheats and rethoric trench warfare (under ideal terms at least, of course party interests dominate their behavior anyway, and the filibister in the senate is used for party interests, too, and the interests of single senators regarding their voter potential at home).

If the US Senate now has a constellation where filibusters are not possible, this is a good thing, preventing the distortition of power structures that had been democratically voted for natuonwide by the people. While that small lead by that comedian in one state is an unlucky mishap, nevertheless it is a lead and by the rules of democratic elections it makes him the winner nevertheless. He just would be wise to avoid claiming that he represents a clear majority of people in his state. In fact he only won by the breadth of one hair. That is perfectly legal, but no reason to boast.

Platapus · 07-01-09, 05:54 AM

Or another way of looking at it is that a filibuster is one way to ensure that the majority consider the minority when making decisions.

Filibusters are not intrinsically good or bad. It is a tool that is available to both sides. How that tool is used may be good or bad, but that is usually based on whether you agree or disagree with the motion.

As long as we have reasonable rules for cloture, I see nothing wrong with the filibuster rules in the Senate.

Skybird · 07-01-09, 06:09 AM

It means that the minority is given the possibility to prevent legislation by the majority for a theoretically unlimited ammount of time - which makes ridicule of voting elections.

You must not vote then, therefore. Just send an equal ammount of senators from all parties into the house, and let them filibuster away, since a majority's lead does not mean anything anymore, and the minority is given the same power to prevent legislation like the majority has powers to establish legislation. why letting the people vote for minorities and majorities, then?

Where does it lead to? Senators training at home their tongue and mouth muscles to form longer speaking endurance. Politicians training the ability to sit with open eyes while sleeping anyhow. Brain degeneration, since argument and understanding of matters do not matter anymore.

Just keep your mouth brabbling - no matter if you have an argument or not. you could as well juggle balls while standing at the lectern, that has as much to do with it like filibustering.

AVGWarhawk · 07-01-09, 08:10 AM

Who is Al Franken?

SteamWake · 07-01-09, 08:48 AM

All I know is when it takes nearly 6 months to determine the results of a freakin election something is wrong.

AVGWarhawk · 07-01-09, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

All I know is when it takes nearly 6 months to determine the results of a freakin election something is wrong.

Shall we say the fix was in?

SteamWake · 07-01-09, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Ending one of the longest Senate races ever, the Minnesota Supreme Court unanimously rejected each of Republican Norm Coleman's five legal arguments that an earlier recount of the November 4 vote had been unfair. Coleman quickly conceded.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090630/...te_minnesota_7

Looks to me like Coleman just got tired of the farce and gave in.

So you might say that Franken dident actually win outright rather his opponent conceeded.

Whatever the case the deed is done now and we now have to bear with a democratic (liberal I might add) supermajority and its consiquences.

Tchocky · 07-01-09, 09:18 AM

Well, the initial recount was automatic, the next two challenges to District and Supreme court (which lasted from January until now) were initiated by Coleman.

Frame57 · 07-01-09, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Who is Al Franken?

(Stuart Smalley voice) "He's good enough...smart enough...and dog gone it people like him..."

SteamWake · 07-01-09, 10:28 AM

Time to drag out the bunny pic again.

This is Al Franken

Aramike · 07-01-09, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Time to drag out the bunny pic again.

This is Al Franken

Gotta love Minnesota. That's your newest Senator, folks.

Max2147 · 07-01-09, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Time to drag out the bunny pic again.

This is Al Franken

What's worse than having somebody like that in your political party?

Being part of a political party that LOST to somebody like that!

07-01-09, 02:10 AM	#16
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I liked Franken's radio show (seems like nobody else did, mind), and he does seem to take this fairly seriously. I wonder how he'll do as a Senator __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

07-01-09, 05:49 AM	#17
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,806 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Filibustering means that an elected minority is given a power as if it were no minority but equal in strength to the elected majority. But democratic elections are meant to create majorities and minorities, while the filibusters tries to reject and/or distort that. In other words it is an abuse of or a distortion of democratic basic principles. In europe, several nations have had pendants to the filibuster in their past (and some until today), in Germany'S Weimarer Republic they knew it under the name of "Obstruktion". In the reforming of Germany after WWII, it was wisely decided not to make this mistake again, and Bundestag and Bundesrat-speeches are limited in time therefore. Both houses should come to decisons by arguments, not by playing tricks and cheats and rethoric trench warfare (under ideal terms at least, of course party interests dominate their behavior anyway, and the filibister in the senate is used for party interests, too, and the interests of single senators regarding their voter potential at home). If the US Senate now has a constellation where filibusters are not possible, this is a good thing, preventing the distortition of power structures that had been democratically voted for natuonwide by the people. While that small lead by that comedian in one state is an unlucky mishap, nevertheless it is a lead and by the rules of democratic elections it makes him the winner nevertheless. He just would be wise to avoid claiming that he represents a clear majority of people in his state. In fact he only won by the breadth of one hair. That is perfectly legal, but no reason to boast. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-01-09, 05:54 AM	#18
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,438 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Or another way of looking at it is that a filibuster is one way to ensure that the majority consider the minority when making decisions. Filibusters are not intrinsically good or bad. It is a tool that is available to both sides. How that tool is used may be good or bad, but that is usually based on whether you agree or disagree with the motion. As long as we have reasonable rules for cloture, I see nothing wrong with the filibuster rules in the Senate. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

07-01-09, 06:09 AM	#19
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,806 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It means that the minority is given the possibility to prevent legislation by the majority for a theoretically unlimited ammount of time - which makes ridicule of voting elections. You must not vote then, therefore. Just send an equal ammount of senators from all parties into the house, and let them filibuster away, since a majority's lead does not mean anything anymore, and the minority is given the same power to prevent legislation like the majority has powers to establish legislation. why letting the people vote for minorities and majorities, then? Where does it lead to? Senators training at home their tongue and mouth muscles to form longer speaking endurance. Politicians training the ability to sit with open eyes while sleeping anyhow. Brain degeneration, since argument and understanding of matters do not matter anymore. Just keep your mouth brabbling - no matter if you have an argument or not. you could as well juggle balls while standing at the lectern, that has as much to do with it like filibustering. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-01-09, 08:10 AM	#20
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,303 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Who is Al Franken? __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

07-01-09, 08:48 AM	#21
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	All I know is when it takes nearly 6 months to determine the results of a freakin election something is wrong. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

07-01-09, 09:18 AM	#24
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Well, the initial recount was automatic, the next two challenges to District and Supreme court (which lasted from January until now) were initiated by Coleman. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

07-01-09, 10:28 AM	#26
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Time to drag out the bunny pic again. This is Al Franken __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

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