Lil Kim Jong Il is playing with his toys again

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

The DPRK is, at this point, technologically advanced enough to destroy itself and no-one else effectively...

I think it reached that stage quite a few years ago The military is about the only thing keeping it from falling apart I'd say.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think it reached that stage quite a few years ago The military is about the only thing keeping it from falling apart I'd say.

Of course, that's how it goes with most totalitarian regimes

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Of course, that's how it goes with most totalitarian regimes

Speaking from experience, eh? Great leader of Northwestern Bigfootia

[baggygreen]

Originally Posted by Respenus

First of all, do you really believe that the moment the USA launches its missiles, the Russians, Chinese, Indians all the remainder and the lot who have declared or undeclared nuclear weapons will not launch missile of their own? Do you think Russia will call the USA and ask what is going on? There is a bloody good reasons why no nukes were used after the second world war. Their is no limitation to their use or their effect.

Which brings me to my second point. Let us hypothetically say that the USA obliterates North Korea from the face of the Earth and there is no outside retaliation, what do you think happens to all the radiation? It won't stay confined to the borders of North Korea. No, you'll have an irradiated world, with Russia, China, South Korea, Oceania proper and others suffering from massive radiation poisoning or the land, air, water and people. If they haven't retaliated until now, they will now, as they will search for new land on which to live.

So, launching a nuclear weapon is not as simple as it might appear.

To interject for a moment on this understandable train of thought..

On the first point, it won't be an icbm. If nuke retaliation was the way it'd more than likely be TLAM-Ns, a cruise missile. I also strongly suspect that the russkies and chinese would be ****ting themselves at the fear they might be held responsible, so yes they'd be jittery and have a finger on the button. However, if the US has a smart leader, they'll notify those nations of his plan and it is unlikely that anything further would come of it.

More than likely this is moot, I'd expect a display of firepower that made shock and awe look like kids playing with tom thumbs! maybe carpetbombing with moabs? imagine that....

on the 2nd point, that is an irrational fear, bred and spread by ignorance (no offence intended at all to yourself respenus, more those who began the fear). Countless nukes have been exploded all around the globe. The US, Japan, Russia, Australia, half the Pacific, China, and then I'm probably missing more. It takes more than 1 nuke to irradiate the globe. Yes, radiation will spread, but it takes much more than most people think to do serious damage. Point is, a couple of nukes going off won't kill of the world. It won't be nice to be nearby, but its not the end of humanity. And please noone go on at me underestimating the horror of nukes, I've met a nagasaki survivor, I know all about it.

Anyways, like I said, I doubt a nuke response to NK will take place. Too much at stake for it to be a long-term, beneficient action to the US. bring on B52s dropping MOABs all over the shop.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Wouldnt suprise me if there were a couple of guys from the major powers permeated throughout North Korea just waiting to pop Kim's melon.

[Oberon]

At this stage I think that Kim is out of the loop anyway, if indeed he was ever truely in it. To shake up the DPRK you need to hit the military command structure IMHO.

[JALU3]

Who Says Kim is still alive? Even that is up for speculation.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by baggygreen

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-23109,00.html

How will barry react to this?

Regarless of who is pushing the button and seeing as how they more or less mocked him by launching a missle while he was delivering a speech on arms reduction and nothing was said then. I sincerly doubt anything will be said now.

[Respenus]

Originally Posted by baggygreen

on the 2nd point, that is an irrational fear, bred and spread by ignorance (no offence intended at all to yourself respenus, more those who began the fear). Countless nukes have been exploded all around the globe. The US, Japan, Russia, Australia, half the Pacific, China, and then I'm probably missing more. It takes more than 1 nuke to irradiate the globe. Yes, radiation will spread, but it takes much more than most people think to do serious damage. Point is, a couple of nukes going off won't kill of the world. It won't be nice to be nearby, but its not the end of humanity. And please noone go on at me underestimating the horror of nukes, I've met a nagasaki survivor, I know all about it.

Thank you for your response, yet you must know that I was responding to GoldenRivet and his idea that NK would be removed from the face of the Earth, turned into a glass desert, so to speak and this would require massive amounts of nukes. You though tactical nukes and cruise missiles, I imagined 1MT+ explosions on every piece of land and not just military installations. If an attack was to be made before NK attacked the US, then we can all be sure, they will use more conventional and effective weapons.

As far as nuclear tests are concerned, I imagine I know enough that whatever damage they might have caused is either hidden or in many cases limited.

[Steel_Tomb]

The problem with NK is its artillery placed along the DMZ. That alone would devastate Seoul where most of the population is held up, along with one of the most important cities for world markets. Not to mention you then have the issue of the mass Armour attacks which SK simply can't stop. You'd probably look at them pushed back to the Pusan permimiter again before any realistic counter-attack can be met. The US isn't station there in strength like it used to... there would need to be a big build up of military equipment and personel over a few months before they'd be ready to fight on equal terms. Public opinion is still subterrainian about armed conflict at the moment, especially with Iraq/Afghanistan... more troops are on their way to Afghanistan so to be honest along with Iraqi deployments and units resting on rotation I don't believe the US Army has the man power to make a stand on the Korean Peninsula. The USAF would be a big aid over there, but you would need nearly all their A-10's and god knows how many fighters to knock down the walls of MiG's... a chance for the F-22 to prove its worth perhaps? The DRPK has old aircraft, but it has lots of them... even MiG-21's are deadly if they get close enough... .


My only thoughts on a hypothetical attack would be this:

• Massive pre-emptive strikes on command and control systems, including telecommunications and any sattelite links they may have. This could be done using special forces on the ground, or a huge TLAM attack from off shore SSN's.
• The destruction of major bridges along the DMZ, it would create bottlenecks around the remaining ones and would severely restrict any ground offensive.
• Focused CAS/BAI to hit ground targets along the DMZ, priority targets would be the many artillery positions. These would have to be ID'd before and taken out by using guided munitions... I'm sure a squadron of B-2's filled with JDAM's would be great for this.
• Clear the skies... "blitzkrieg" style attack in the air, with simultatious SEAD/OCA strikes and fighter sweeps to gain air superiority, knock out their aircraft in the skies and prevent the rest from taking off by knocking out their runways. Most airfields have their hangers burried inside mountains so we would have to make some mighty big holes in their runways.
• Prepare for a ground offensive. After the skies are clear the armour would be at the mercy of the air force, the A-10 would make its presense felt here by knocking out tank columns. Whilst this is going on, the supply lines to the rear could be hit, NK has very limited supplies of fuel so this would be a cruicial point in the outcome of the war. Its shown in history once the skies are owned by the enemy advancing is incredibly difficult. Hopefully if the enemy advance can be stalled/halted then time could be bought for diplomatic ventures or to resupply/build up more forces in the region.

The above is based on the US/NATO/UN present in force in South Korea... SK on its own just couldn't hope to stop an all out attack.

[Ishmael]

The solution to me is really quite simple. Since Kim Jong Il IS the King of the Communists, having inherited the throne from his dad, Kim Il Sung, here's how you solve North Korea's energy production crisis.

Go around the world and dig up all the Old Commies like Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, the lot. Ship all the bodies to North Korea. The North Koreans can hook up the bodies to generators and power the entire country while all those guys are...SPINNING IN THEIR GRAVES!

I also thought about making Kim a Spiffy crown as King of the Commies. It would have higher than normal crown points to give him a little extra height and the points could be adorned on top with Red Stars and Hammers and Sickels. Can you just picture him wearing something like that at the next May Day parade?

You see? It ONLY works as long as Kim remains the King of the Commies.

[nikimcbee]

I snickered when I heard obama's response

The United Nations Security Council has been called to an emergency meeting in New York to discuss the crisis.
All eyes will be on Mr Obama to see if keeps his promise to seek a diplomatic solution to North Korea's provocative actions

His glib tongue will resolve this



Oh God, not the UN!

I'll play devil's advocate: NO BLOOD FOR KIM-CHI!

I'm afraid I'm with dowly on this one.

[Seth8530]

Personally, i dont know what the hold up is, damn international opinion. we should be sending in tactical airstrikes this very minute to destroy thier launch facilities and uranium enrichment program. Then lets see if Iran will think twice about his program. If we keep letting them have thier way with us, nothing will be done untill thousands of civi's are dead in a nuclear hell hole.

[Raptor1]

"Peace for our time"

Those words were spoken in a very similar situation

[Steel_Tomb]

I don't know why the security council are even bothering to meet. Its not like they can do anything along the lines of military action... China and Russia will just VETO it... the UN is a lame duck when it comes to resolving situations like this. Russia and China should never have been granted VETO's... you don't give the two biggest supporters of arms exports and supporting dictatorships the ability to stop the people who want fairness and justice from resolving the problem! Can you imagine the UN getting together the force they had in the 50's again with china in the mix... they wouldn't have been able to do it then because of a VETO either... idiots.