Obama calls for halt to Gitmo prosecutions.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Keep them yourself. You messed it up, you clean it, you pay for it. And you bring your legal issues back in order. Why should Germany give you the cheap exit ticket?

This is good. But what is best in life?

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

I didn't see anything in there that said he wouldn't close the facility...:hmm:

I guess it meant that anyone who thought that it'll be closed by tomorrow will be let down. Now, is there anybody who thought that it'd go that quickly?

[Fish]

I thought you're innocent untill you are convicted in the USA?
Am I wrong? Seems some of you have them convicted without being in court.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Fish

I thought you're innocent untill you are convicted in the USA?
Am I wrong? Seems some of you have them convicted without being in court.

Not anymore, thanks to the Patriot Act.

One Nation, Under Surveillance.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Keep them yourself. You messed it up, you clean it, you pay for it. And you bring your legal issues back in order. Why should Germany give you the cheap exit ticket?

What mess? All I see are leftists who don't like how something is done.

Heh, imagine Obama's credibility if someone detained there was released, then perpetuated a terrorist act. You think he doesn't know that?

Sure, Gitmo may close ... only to replaced by something similar.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Aramike

What mess? All I see are leftists who don't like how something is done.

Heh, imagine Obama's credibility if someone detained there was released, then perpetuated a terrorist act. You think he doesn't know that?

Sure, Gitmo may close ... only to replaced by something similar.

And you know 100% a similar detention center will be created?

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

And you know 100% a similar detention center will be created?

Did I say there would be?

Nope.

You don't need a similar detention center to be created to hold prisoners in similar conditions.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Did I say there would be?

Nope.

. . . only to replaced by something similar.

[Zachstar]

Gitmo will be closed. It has done nothing but given the ones accused dream conditions while they wait for trial.

Granted due to the high number of innocents such is required but to see videos of terrorists getting conditions that would make a middle class worker jealous is just silly. They get to watch Arabic TV in HD, Fancy dinners, plenty of goodies. ETC...

Yes there are times where it is bad there but overall its just a dream home for terrorists and they need to be gotten the hell out and tried in the court of law SOON.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Gitmo will be closed. It has done nothing but given the ones accused dream conditions while they wait for trial..

Nah... they missed out on that whole virgin thing :rotfl:

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Fish

I thought you're innocent untill you are convicted in the USA?
Am I wrong? Seems some of you have them convicted without being in court.

In most cases, you're completely correct. However, those protections are not guaranteed to non-U.S. citizens, nor prisoners of war, and certainly not to non-uniformed combatants, which even the Geneva Convention does not protect.

The controversey surrounding Guantanamo is purely political and has nothing to do with the treatment of the prisoners.

Pretty much every account of Gitmo "torture" that I have ever seen can best be described as extremely mild. Sure, some of it it may have been humiliating, but it's nothing compared to what your own armed forces recruits go through on a daily basis. It may suck to be stacked, naked, in a human pyramid, but try being crammed into a toilet stall with 19 other naked, male recruits for taking too long too shower. And believe me, they can all fit in there.
Perhaps the prisoners see the Quran flushed down a toilet. I'm not a Muslim, so that would be a ridiculous form of torture for me, but maybe it is roughly equivalent to being told that your girlfriend called while you were at PT to tell you that she left you for someone else(which turned out to be a lie), or being told that your grandfather died nearly 3 weeks after the fact, and then sent to the gas chamber (true, in this instance). I'm pretty damn sure that no Gitmo prisoners were forced to sing the Marines' Hymn while doing pushups in CS gas.

Considering how our own troops are treated, I'd say that the Gitmo prisoners got off pretty light.

Having actually handled enemy POW's, I can assure you that the directives for their capture and interrogation are quite lenient. They certainly don't involve starvation, beating, and beheading, unlike some people's procedures.

If anyone ever becomes a POW, pray to whatever you hold sacred that you become a U.S. POW, because even in Guantanamo you'll get better treatment than you would almost anywhere else.

To reiterate, this move is purely political. Most likely, Obama will simply shuffle the prisoners somewhere less publicized, or defuse the controversey via some other means. Guantanamo was intended to be a nail in Bush's coffin and has succeeded spectacularly despite any kind of common sense.

Of course, some choose to believe that "two wrongs do not make a right", and these people generally are not soldiers and have little to no respect for the value of military intelligence, especially in a counter-insurgency operation.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Enigma

As far as I know, this is a fairly standard thing to do during a transition. ....

In terms of his dealings with national security, the man's first day in office was not spent ensuring our people in the military have adequate funding, or whatever they need to ensure success of their mission. Instead his first day in office was spent fighting for rights of our enemy combatants at Gitmo. He decided to use his first day to misuse the executive order to protect enemies of this country. That is not a standard thing any President has ever done.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

In terms of his dealings with national security, the man's first day in office was not spent ensuring our people in the military have adequate funding, or whatever they need to ensure success of their mission. Instead his first day in office was spent fighting for rights of our enemy combatants at Gitmo. He decided to use his first day to misuse the executive order to protect enemies of this country. That is not a standard thing any President has ever done.

Take that junk to freeperville. It's just laughable here.

That excuse to keep gitmo open died years ago. Get new material.

[Zachstar]

BTW what is far more relevant to this is the ending of torture. (Yes it is torture. Those who have done it in simulations have terrors for months afterwards after lasting but a few seconds)

The ending of "Enhanced Interrogation" will go a long way to renewing respect for the USA.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Take that junk to freeperville. It's just laughable here.

That excuse to keep gitmo open died years ago. Get new material.

Sadly enough, only a Democrat wouldn't be able to figure out the negative consequences of releasing enemy combatants while at war against them. Most of these people were found in Afghanistan armed to the teeth, fighting alongside Taliban wackos against our soldiers. This will indeed increase the chances of another attack against our interests, or more coalition soldiers dead at the hands of these psychos. But I'm sure none of that is important to you. Like Mr. Obama seemingly, you see no dangers.

You're more worried about how we treat them than what dangers they pose to us. And you give primary concern as to what some of the whiny Europeans think of us, rather than what we should do to ensure our own security. I guess we should get used to the old "sweep it under the rug" policy. Change and Hope???? Yeah...change back to the 90's. And only hope for the enmy terrorist combatants. In regards to the relevance of the material, National Security is never an old or obsolete concept. And there are many well reasoned arguments to keep Gitmo open, and there are virtually no good arguments to close it other than the usual "we'll be more respected by the whiners of the world" nonsense. Unfortunately, you guys on the left never seem to get it. Nor do any of you seem to be students of history. I am saddened if the results of this lead to more U.S. casualties. I'm worried because this single action is likely to lead to more danger.