Where were they?

[Mush Martin]

[quote=Kloef]

it was a combination of Enigma code cracking(called Ultra)and Asdic.

Thats a bit simplistic.

Ultra intelligence sure
asdic was old technology
but new forms I will accept.

then theres
the effective establishment of OIC's and Tracking rooms for
all the allied atlantic powers, theres the bulking up from
lend lease, the arrival from normal production of regular
ships, the arrival from emergency production of worthy
escorts, the completions of training and advanced trainings
for all those civilians that joined. theres d/f huff duff, theres
centimetric and airborne radars, theres the co ordination
of Convoy escort local escort and HK groups theres the
effect of Liberators on the air gap theres the effect of
escort carriers on the prosecution of the enemy. Procuction
flow of the allies interupted production in the axis, the willingness
of the allies to adopt woment into the labour force and german
resistance to such to enhance production.
and so on and so on and so on we could go on for a while.

it wont sum up as canada won the war with flower class corvettes
and it wont sum up as asdic and enigma,

The OIC's (Operational intelligence centre's and associated tracking
rooms) were vital or Ultra would have been as useless as intrecepts
and broken codes in room forty in the first world war. What changed
wasnt the ability to read codes and break cyphers, what changed
was the speed and complexity of such and the most important change
was analysis and dissemination. all the intelligence in the world
is pointless if you dont tell the guy who needs it or dont know who
he is or if you didnt understand the context of the intelligence and
what was important.

to be honest I find my own statement simplified to a maximum too.
just to fit it in.

none of it adds up at all to the cold realities of even a single
north atlantic patrol for either side. theres ten thousand
books with ten thousand words that cant describe what the
sailors went through, and in truth its men that win wars.

its the biggest damn battle in the biggest damn war in the
history of history so far. it just aint so simple as this or that
or them.

Mush

[pmelheck]

A part was played by Nautilus. Arashi had depthed charged her and was rushing back to the fleet when Arashi was spotted by SBDs looking for the Japanese fleet and the rest is history.

[Kloef]

Interesting post Mush,yeah it was a very complex situation..the efficiency of it all increased during the war and men got experienced,both in Navy intelligence or whatever intelligence was used for any particular reason and aboard the ships,planes and subs..

[Mush Martin]

Intelligence is a vital part of any strategic submarine conflict.

entire lines of uboats were gathered by donitz re routed by
Wynn and rolled up by hunter killer groups.
Thats the power of intelligence it guides the gun hand.

Complete patrol lines of submarines gone.
Donitz must've had some horrible nightmares.

somethings are less obvious
in the commonwealth the simple reciprocating
steam plant had been standard almost since the
WWI flower class
(the real progenitor of modern escorts)
it was totally familiar to all those civilian sailors
who signed up it was underpowered and innefficient
but it had the virtue of simplicity and total producability
all over the commonwealth, it enabled the numbers of
ships. HP boilers etc werent that common steam turbines
for high end or simple steam for the workhorses.

theres an endless list of influencing factors
thats the best part
you can study it every day all you life and
learn something new about it every day all of your life.

(big job)