To the American: Are you proud?

[Skybird]

Doesn't bother me much wether people are American or not. what they found their pride (or shame) on is what makes me assessing them this or that way.

[DeepIron]

The Journalist also wrote, that the only person that has the possibility to make the american proud again, is Obama.

His opinion, that's all...

Perhaps one day America will return to that thought. Why are Americans not so proud now? My god where have you been since 2003? Mainly Americans want their laws once more followed - or most of them do - for we have a president who not only breaks laws - some he has signed - but who also brags about it before Congress. And our Congress is bought off (of course it always was I suppose - see Mark Twain) but mainly Americans are and will be waking up to the fact that their industrialization is now back to levels it was before 1916 and that even their white collar jobs are greatly reduced and reducing - and they are about sick of having China shipping all their poisons and lead paint our way (while Europe has moved to stop that - causing China to increase the amount of crap it send to the USA, since the US Govt is so corrupt as not to care).

Like the ancient Greeks used to say, before the gods destroy someone they first fill them with pride.

Blacklight You are a believer in cabals too? All a conspiracy is, is just people banding together in privacy to seek unfair advantage from business, markets, governments, religions and other social networks. I have seen conspiracies in families, small town governments, among little old ladies on church boards, among friends, and biologists have detected them in small format in natural troops of monkeys and chimps. It is really just plain old CHEATING and those who believe such thing do not and can not exist are ignorant of ancient history, Roman history, Medieval history, and more modern history – they also are at a loss to explain the vast amount of laws on the books of all nations that stand against this supposedly IMPOSSIBLE activity. They also seem unaware of the USA’s dealings with most South American nations from through out much of the 20th century. They also must be unaware of the fact that upwards of 30% of world earnings are generated by crime and various under handed deals and kickbacks. They also must be unaware of the Drug cartels and myriad other crime organizations. Essentially such believers that reject a belief in cabals and conspiracies live inside a Micky Mouse Disneyland created by mega-corporation evening news.

Do people cheat? Yes. Do preachers cheat? Yes. Do militaries cheat? Yes. Do legal systems cheat? Yes. Do groups of people band together to cheat? All the time. Are there secret societies that as recently as the 50s (Masons) were caught in England trying to gain unfair advantage for their members while in court cases? Yes, Yes, Yes. Through out history have the rich in every empire and nation sought for ways to keep the average Joe under foot? Yes. Have the very richest bankers and families played both sides of many wars in the past? Yes. Was George Bush’s granddaddy an arms dealer who tried to serve the Nazis after WWII started? Yes, so said Congress. Did the Kennedy family of JFK first get their riches by bootlegging whiskey against the law? You bet. Are people who don’t believe such cabals are possible just dopes? That would be saying it nicely.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

See, you can guage the rest of the worlds opinion quite easily about any country in the world, regardless of what screwed up reporter writes about it. Know how?

Simply guage the number of people who want to get into a particular country vs. how many want to get out. It is that simple.

Since so many want into my country, shouldn't I feel proud to be an AMerican?

-S

There's the other part you're forgetting
I want to get into America. I'm in a little hut on the border with Canada. The hut is on fire. As is the rest of Canada. I want to live. So I go to America.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

There's the other part you're forgetting
I want to get into America. I'm in a little hut on the border with Canada. The hut is on fire. As is the rest of Canada. I want to live. So I go to America.

Our country; not on fire! USA! USA! USA!

[Sailor Steve]

I don't usually think of it in terms of pride. Pride to me is thinking you're better than everybody else. I think it's cool that America was the first country created from scratch; that is after they separated from Britain they sat down and said "What kind of government are we going to have?", and I think it's great that we stand for "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but sometimes pride leads us to think that we have to "help" people who don't want our help. Sometimes we think we have to make others live up to standards we don't live up to half the time ourselves.

America has been an ideal for others to live up to, a goal for others to achieve, a destination for others to move to; but Americans have also been just as spiteful, just as hateful, just as superior (in the worst way - our own minds), just as arrogant and just as blind as anyone else. People point to our Founding Fathers as though they were gods, and actually they spent as much time fighting each other as they did any outside enemy. They had ideas, and they disagreed on what would work. I'm pretty sure Washington, Adams, Jefferson and the others never looked at themselves and said "I'm proud to be an American". I think they mostly said, "Okay, what do we do next?"

I'm glad that I have some amount of personal freedom, and I wish everyone else could. That's about it for me.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by August

Our country; not on fire! USA! USA! USA!

:rotfl: I live for moments like that!

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by August

Our country; not on fire! USA! USA! USA!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I don't usually think of it in terms of pride. Pride to me is thinking you're better than everybody else. I think it's cool that America was the first country created from scratch; that is after they separated from Britain they sat down and said "What kind of government are we going to have?", and I think it's great that we stand for "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but sometimes pride leads us to think that we have to "help" people who don't want our help. Sometimes we think we have to make others live up to standards we don't live up to half the time ourselves.

America has been an ideal for others to live up to, a goal for others to achieve, a destination for others to move to; but Americans have also been just as spiteful, just as hateful, just as superior (in the worst way - our own minds), just as arrogant and just as blind as anyone else. People point to our Founding Fathers as though they were gods, and actually they spent as much time fighting each other as they did any outside enemy. They had ideas, and they disagreed on what would work. I'm pretty sure Washington, Adams, Jefferson and the others never looked at themselves and said "I'm proud to be an American". I think they mostly said, "Okay, what do we do next?"

I'm glad that I have some amount of personal freedom, and I wish everyone else could. That's about it for me.

Very well said!

[Peto]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I don't usually think of it in terms of pride. Pride to me is thinking you're better than everybody else. I think it's cool that America was the first country created from scratch; that is after they separated from Britain they sat down and said "What kind of government are we going to have?", and I think it's great that we stand for "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but sometimes pride leads us to think that we have to "help" people who don't want our help. Sometimes we think we have to make others live up to standards we don't live up to half the time ourselves.

America has been an ideal for others to live up to, a goal for others to achieve, a destination for others to move to; but Americans have also been just as spiteful, just as hateful, just as superior (in the worst way - our own minds), just as arrogant and just as blind as anyone else. People point to our Founding Fathers as though they were gods, and actually they spent as much time fighting each other as they did any outside enemy. They had ideas, and they disagreed on what would work. I'm pretty sure Washington, Adams, Jefferson and the others never looked at themselves and said "I'm proud to be an American". I think they mostly said, "Okay, what do we do next?"

I'm glad that I have some amount of personal freedom, and I wish everyone else could. That's about it for me.

Wow! I wish I had said that. But I hope you don't mind if I quote you!

Salute Sailor Steve!!!

[bradclark1]

I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud for what we are supposed to stand for. I'm just not proud of our current government nor am I proud that I think our political system has been taken over by corruption.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud for what we are supposed to stand for.

Are you proud for having been born by chance in America and not in Somalia, or are you proud for something that you have done yourself that contributes to what you consider to be an american characterstic that you think is worth to be proud of? If the latter, why not saying so, and risking misinterpretation?

when saying "proud for what we are supposed to stand for" - does this imply, like you said in your post at the end, that you see a divergence between what America is supposed to stand for, and what what it actually stands for in reality, in the present? And if so, when considering that this quality that is just supposed (=hoped, demanded, imagined) to be there, currently obviously is not there - are you then proud of an image of things only that maybe have been, or will be, but are not now; and why is that? Do you see it as an utopia functioning as a guiding vision?

No-no, don't blow up, I just play devil's advocate here, because these two phrases are so massively overused, often given, and nevertheless hollow at the same time, that I sometimes find it difficult to see what people mean when using these. But all in all I assume I got quite well were you come from, because I read many postings by you over the years.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Are you proud for having been born by chance in America and not in Somalia, or are you proud for something that you have done yourself that contributes to what you consider to be an american characterstic that you think is worth to be proud of? If the latter, why not saying so, and risking misinterpretation?

Mmm. I'm grateful I wasn't born in Somalia. I'm proud as an American enough that I put my life on the line for her and that made me more patriotic because I was defending what we as America stood for. A common enough occurrence of people with military experience.

when saying "proud for what we are supposed to stand for" - does this imply, like you said in your post at the end, that you see a divergence between what America is supposed to stand for, and what what it actually stands for in reality, in the present? And if so, when considering that this quality that is just supposed (=hoped, demanded, imagined) to be there, currently obviously is not there - are you then proud of an image of things only that maybe have been, or will be, but are not now; and why is that? Do you see it as an utopia functioning as a guiding vision?

Yes I do see a divergence. It even comes through in my paragraph above. What I believe is that we are evolving into a corrupt society based on greed for power, money and influence and what we once were is only played now as lip service as a means to an end. As far as utopia, thats your department :-) there can never be any such thing nor do I think America was ever close to being a utopia.
Rather then go into a 25 page paper on the whys I'll just make it a simple observation. I think personal greed, corporate power and influence plus religion are unraveling us at an alarming race. We might have to destroy the village to save it.

No-no, don't blow up, I just play devil's advocate here, because these two phrases are so massively overused, often given, and nevertheless hollow at the same time, that I sometimes find it difficult to see what people mean when using these. But all in all I assume I got quite well were you come from, because I read many postings by you over the years.

Nothing in your questions to blow up about. The first phrase or to you slogan, I don't see how it can be over or under used. You either are or you aren't. It's a personal choice. The second you acknowledge that it was used as a past tense not a present so it shouldn't seem hollow.

[bradclark1]

In the above I used religion as one of the reasons of our unraveling. I don't think of religion as 'praise of god' anymore. I see religion as more of a political party in the same family as facism or communism or even dictatorship.
There is nothing nice about religion, it's a nice word used to force your will on a people not in the name of god but in an political ideology.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I don't usually think of it in terms of pride. Pride to me is thinking you're better than everybody else. I think it's cool that America was the first country created from scratch; that is after they separated from Britain they sat down and said "What kind of government are we going to have?", and I think it's great that we stand for "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but sometimes pride leads us to think that we have to "help" people who don't want our help. Sometimes we think we have to make others live up to standards we don't live up to half the time ourselves.

America has been an ideal for others to live up to, a goal for others to achieve, a destination for others to move to; but Americans have also been just as spiteful, just as hateful, just as superior (in the worst way - our own minds), just as arrogant and just as blind as anyone else. People point to our Founding Fathers as though they were gods, and actually they spent as much time fighting each other as they did any outside enemy. They had ideas, and they disagreed on what would work. I'm pretty sure Washington, Adams, Jefferson and the others never looked at themselves and said "I'm proud to be an American". I think they mostly said, "Okay, what do we do next?"

I'm glad that I have some amount of personal freedom, and I wish everyone else could. That's about it for me.

Sailor Steve thats one of the most eloquent, thoughtful and intelligent posts I've ever read on this forum. To echo Skybird, 'Very well said! '