Australia to build world’s most lethal submarines

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by CCIP

In this case I meant conventional-powered hunter-killer subs, yea. See the head-scratching that seems to be going on in the navy regarding the Gotland right now for example.

Ah thanks. CCIP, again a bastion of knowledge in an otherwise dense world. :rotfl:

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by NiclDoe

I will be my butt off when i see the US navy or any other navy just kills the subs

Laugh at yourself! A single swedish sub leased by the navy - the Gotland Tchocky mentioned - since over one years evades successfully any training efforts of the Navy to find and kill it. The crew of it said in an interview on german Tv they could sail up and down the mississippi - and the Navy being unable to do anything about it. A german type-212 has been reported to run circles around a CBG at will and without the carrier being aware that it was there. A german-built type-209, owned by Southafrica, just weeks ago in exercises off the coast of southafrica has completely wiped out a NATO task force of 15 ships, including American and British combat vessels - without ever having been detected once.

It makes sense, imo, to invest in sub technology. since years I think thta like WWII saw the battleships going nto useums and carriers becoming the most important weapon, in the future the importance (in war) of carriers are completely inferior to that of subs - even more so since today combat units are no longer produced in so massive quantities like in WWII. The german in the Atlantic were close to strangle Britain, and the ameircans succeeded with that task and brought japan's economy to it's knees - with submarines.

The future war at sea will be decided by submarines - not by carriers and air power.

[Rotary Crewman]

Originally Posted by Venatore

Let me make it very clear to you SUBMAN1; we Australians are NOT as you say "balling up in a don't hurt me foetal position".
You are not left to defend the world as you say again, if you think you are then get your arse down to East Timor, Solomon Island, Fiji and take over so we can kick back and drink beer and have BBQ s.

:hmm: Hmm, as a member of Her Majesty's Royal Air Force I would like to just also add that we're still involved in 'The War Against Terrrorism' and you're not 'Left to Defend the world'

Thanks

[Hakahura]

Originally Posted by Rotary Crewman

:hmm: Hmm, as a member of Her Majesty's Royal Air Force I would like to just also add that we're still involved in 'The War Against Terrrorism' and you're not 'Left to Defend the world'

Thanks

I'll 2nd that Rotary!
I 've been wearing the same uniform as you for the past 19 years, I know where your coming from.
Nice to see one of our cousins across the pond, recongnising our efforts.
Got to spend yet more time in the Gulf again this year and I'm so looking forward to my return visit in 2008.
I wonder why so many people around the world have low opinions of America?
Subman?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Rotary Crewman

:hmm: Hmm, as a member of Her Majesty's Royal Air Force I would like to just also add that we're still involved in 'The War Against Terrrorism' and you're not 'Left to Defend the world'

Thanks

Yet

[SUBMAN1]

I personally think it is about high time the US pull up and go home from every portion of the world. Pull our troops in from Japan, from Europe, from the middle east, and let everyone to their own devices.

Pre WWII is where America needs to go. We are only being criticized for what we do anymore anyway. It is far easier to go back to the criticism of pre WWII in which they said we weren't doing anything. Screw the world.

-S

[Rotary Crewman]

Dont remember people of the armed force in this thread critising the Americans.

Subman, calm yourself, think about your posts and remember that there are people out there serving and losing their lives across the world with and alongside the Americans. Stop thinking that everyone thinks your country is the bad guy and that we all hate you.

Come here, lets have a hug

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Rotary Crewman

Dont remember people of the armed force in this thread critising the Americans.

Subman, calm yourself, think about your posts and remember that there are people out there serving and losing their lives across the world with and alongside the Americans. Stop thinking that everyone thinks your country is the bad guy and that we all hate you.

Come here, lets have a hug

Suppose I don't want a hug? jk!

ANyway, in this forum, most foreigners hate Americans, so there ya go. What better way to show our love back than to let them have the world? Simple solution to a complex problem!

-S

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

ANyway, in this forum, most foreigners hate Americans, so there ya go.

Wahey.

[TarJak]

How about we stay on topic for once? (A novelty for the GT threads I know...),

There is pretty much no way Australia will be buying Nuke subs regardless of the budget being spent. One factor to consider is that the new Defense Minister here is the local member for an area that has had considerable experience in ship building and only this week was seen on local TV spouting how local industry should be gearing up for this project.

I may be wrong but it looks more like posturing by a local member of Parliment making good spin on his election promises to reinvigorate local industry.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

ANyway, in this forum, most foreigners hate Americans, so there ya go. What better way to show our love back than to let them have the world? Simple solution to a complex problem!

-S

Who told ya that

Another case of confusing the disdain for policies of that or other fragment of the political spectrum (most frequently neocons and/or religious fundamentalists) for dislike of americans.

As I posted in the Thanksgiving thread last month, I love Americans. Too many of my friends are Americans for me to even begin to dislike them. And I'm sure most of of the other non-americans here feel the same!

YES BACK ON TOPIC

Either way I'll be watching this one carefully. There was extensive Swedish advice on the Collins class when that was being built, and I certainly expect that it may come in here again. In which case it's not unlikely that we will see something like a Swedish AIP sub being developed here.

[baggygreen]

IMHO, $5b of that $25b should go to submarine personnel retention. Now we've gotten rid of the dud sub problem, they're mainly sitting in dock in WA without crews!

There is no way that we'll be getting nuclear subs, not with the current govt. One of Krudds promises was not to build the nuclear power stations which would help ease our reliance on coal and reduce our emissions now that he's signed us up to Kyoto too... He certainly won't go building nuke subs. At the very least we should be leasing 1 or 2, to supplement the conventional fleet. With the steadily growing arms race in SE Asia it'd be nice to have something that can sit unseen for weeks or even months on end to monitor the Indonesians, for example.

Id like to see what exactly they propose for this new fleet... i've read they're intending to put both long and shrt range cruise missiles in its armament as well as AIP. Oughta make it a pretty interesting design - a helluva lot bigger than the current boats!

[Onkel Neal]

I've always been interested in nuke sub vs conventional sub tatics and theory. True, a lot of people state that "this conventional sub" evaded "some naval group", but I'm pretty skeptical (the Mississippi? Say what? ) . In war exercise conditions, with rules and boundaries, conventional subs look viable. But in general enagements, those capabilities would be stretched. I've talked to a few naval people, and they coyly suggest tactics that would make any non-nuke sub null and void, a nonfactor. Even with 2 week AIP capability, the diesel sub is limited in speed and range. And if the US were to engage a country in war, those subs would be tracked and targeted pretty quickly. They have to snorkel sometime and when the do, they aren't silent--they would be taken out by combined forces.

Of course, US sub officers and captains I've talked with will be biased toward their branch of the service. Even so, I spent an hour discussing everything I could think of regarding sub tactics and capabilities with the Captain of the Texas, and the XO and PCO, among others. I just don't see a diesel sub posing a threat of any kind to a Virginia class except in very limited, special circumstances. And they made it clear they have options to avoid those type of situations.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Of course, US sub officers and captains I've talked with will be biased toward their branch of the service. Even so, I spent an hour discussing everything I could think of regarding sub tactics and capabilities with the Captain of the Texas, and the XO and PCO, among others. I just don't see a diesel sub posing a threat of any kind to a Virginia class except in very limited, special circumstances. And they made it clear they have options to avoid those type of situations.

That's how it goes. SSKs are silver bullets in the right spots and against the right enemy. They might not be as flexible as SSNs but for a country without a defence budget greater than most African nations, they are a cheap and mostly effective way of extending naval capability and putting additional pressure on foreign strategists.

The Pacific's a big ocean and I'm sure our Australian allies would make good use of long-range SSN patrols, but I never realized until just now the extent of Australian involvement in the East Indies. In this theatre, I think SSKs meet Australian security needs quite well.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by TarJak

How about we stay on topic for once? (A novelty for the GT threads I know...),

There is pretty much no way Australia will be buying Nuke subs regardless of the budget being spent. One factor to consider is that the new Defense Minister here is the local member for an area that has had considerable experience in ship building and only this week was seen on local TV spouting how local industry should be gearing up for this project.

I may be wrong but it looks more like posturing by a local member of Parliment making good spin on his election promises to reinvigorate local industry.

Couldn't agree more with your sentiments. But hey, I would love to see Mr Midnight Oil's face, Peter Garrett's face if labour did sign up to nuke subs.

We have just sorted out the problems with our Collins. I can't see why we shouldn't be able to stretch them out a bit to perhaps past 2030. Look at the great service that the Oberons gave our country. I just want value for money.