For you that miss the tail on the map....

[danlisa]

@ Von Manteuffel

That is a very good synopsys of the issue at hand. Thank you for the very well thought out post.

@ Dustyboats

Damn. You've just confused me with all the math. I guess I maybe lucky in that I can calculate these things in my head without actually consciously trying to. I can usually plot my interception course by just judging the angles which present themselves on the plots. I suppose this comes from years of playing Snooker/Pool, hmm I guess that would be geometry:hmm:. However, from your post I can certainly see how this new addition can be quite daunting for some players.

[Canovaro]

What most of us do I think is extending the tail from the bow of the contact and so drawing it's track. Then plot a course so you can ambush it on its course.
No tail makes it harder as you will need a second contact mark to draw the track more precise.


Could be more fun. I will definately try it without tail.

[melnibonian]

To tell the truth I'm one of the GWX Testers that voiced my disagreement with the lack of tails in the ships and subs. Nevertheless I agree with Dan's post as this new development in GWX gives the oportunity to players to be less lazy and try to get a second contact to plot an intercept course. As it was stated above the whole idea of GWX was to create a relativelly realistic experience while still keeping the gaming aspect of the game. My suggestion to everyone is to give the new contact icons a chance. Try to play for a while as the game was initially intended before changing to a more "simplistic" version. So far during the Beta Testing and my private gaming in WaW had no problems plotting intercept courses and finding targets without the tails and at the same time I had absolutelly no reduction of the pleasure the game gave me. In the future I will probably change back to the tailed version of the contact icons but I have to say that playing without them made me a better player and gave me the chance to learn how to plot better and more accurate intercept courses.

So until the tailed version is ready ience and have a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

[Carotio]

data\Menu\Gui\ContLine.tga seems chanced since GWX1.03

[i_b_spectre]

While the tails were handy in making a quick estimate of the target's course, I find it only slightly more involving to use the marking tool to tag the position of the initial contact, then sample it over several minutes, placing marks at each interval. Then I use the ruler tool to connect the dots...er, marks to derive their course. My first GWX was 1.03 and that was back in September, so I am certainly not a very knowledgeable or experienced player, but this method works for me.

Having come from the flight sim community, scalability is a big deal there. To be successful, it must be able to appeal to the novice and seasoned veteran alike. GWX has not removed this, but it has constricted the parameters somewhat. You can still set whatever level of realism you prefer, but GWX is not the vanilla SH3 nor should we wish it to be. It might have appealed to the masses if the tails on targets were an option. I fly with target icons off, but many people refuse to play that way. I prefer the immersion of having the cockpit "on", others prefer the "wonder woman view". The game lets us have it both ways. The IL-2 series I played for years is hard coded and remained basically tamper-proof for a long time. The downside is, aside from skins and mission builders, there are no modders like we see with SH3. The biggest difference with IL-2 is the developer supported expansions and improvements throughout the life of the series whereas SH3 would not be where it is today were it not for the modding community. Good on all o'you.

[jimmie]

Folks, try to play with map off. Tails don't matter really. The navigator couldn't update a dozen ship on the map. Sound guy couldn't report a dozen contact at a time.

No-map update gives you much more fun and accomplishment, really

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by Von Manteuffel

The message is simple. If GWX2 doesn't deliver the kind of gaming experience you want from SH3 - leave it alone, or, if you wish, modify it yourself so that it does suit you better. I'm sure the GWX Team won't mind if you modify their work, but what they can - and do - object to is criticism based on gaming needs and expectations which aren't and never were part of their vision. No one should ever carp, criticise or condemn people for achieving what they set out to achieve.

You couldn't have said it any better than this.

[Hakahura]

Congratulatons to the GWX team on their sucessful launch of 2.0.

Like others posting here on this thread, I miss the grey tails. C'est la vie, you can't please all the people all the time. The GWX team have modified SH3 as they saw fit and have done it well.

This is not meant as an afront to the GWX team or in anyway to demean their efforts. However I have found that if you insert the "contline tga" file from data/menu/gui GWX 1.03 the tails reappear in GWX 2.0. I have used this on 2 patrols so far with no apparent problems. I have certainly not conducted extensive testing and by no means encountered all the new units in GWX 2.0.

Should anyone else care to try this I would strongly recommend you backup you GWX 2.0 contline tga file before replacing it.

This file is solely the work of the GWX team and is extracted directly from GWX 1.03.

http://files.filefront.com/GWX20+Gre.../fileinfo.html

Once again I wish no insult to any member of the GWX team, only to permit people to play SH3 the way they choose.

[Gezoes]

Smashing, I'll give it a try as well

[vodkavera]

Originally Posted by Hakahura

Congratulatons to the GWX team on their sucessful launch of 2.0.

Like others posting here on this thread, I miss the grey tails. C'est la vie, you can't please all the people all the time. The GWX team have modified SH3 as they saw fit and have done it well.

This is not meant as an afront to the GWX team or in anyway to demean their efforts. However I have found that if you insert the "contline tga" file from data/menu/gui GWX 1.03 the tails reappear in GWX 2.0. I have used this on 2 patrols so far with no apparent problems. I have certainly not conducted extensive testing and by no means encountered all the new units in GWX 2.0.

Should anyone else care to try this I would strongly recommend you backup you GWX 2.0 contline tga file before replacing it.

This file is solely the work of the GWX team and is extracted directly from GWX 1.03.

http://files.filefront.com/GWX20+Gre.../fileinfo.html

Once again I wish no insult to any member of the GWX team, only to permit people to play SH3 the way they choose.

Amen to that!

That was not the intention with this thread to insult any of the great people in the dev.team. I just thought that some would like the tail back and since it worked for me.
I have now played 5 patrols with color and tails and so far it works just fine.
No problem yet with the new ships.
Let you all know if I encounter any problems.

And those of you that like to play it like it should be played. You do that.
No worries.


/VV

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Von Manteuffel

And therein, IMHO, lies the kernel of the dissent and unpleasantness which so unfortunately accompanied the release of GWX2: Some players want an immersive experience which is as close to the real thing as the limitations of a computer-game allow. This is what the GWX Team have provided and what, I believe, has always been their stated aim; and they've done it superbly.

Others want to sail around the oceans, making kills with lots of explosions and without too much of the math and uncertainty a realistic simulation entails. They want to find targets ( relatively easily ) fire torpedoes ( or their deck gun ) with a fair certainty of a hit; see and hear big explosions ( we all love pyrotechnics ) and earn lots of renown.

Both are perfectly acceptable ways of playing the game. The heart of this Community is the broad spectrum of playing styles and the mods they give rise to. Thanks to that we can all modify SH3 to give us the playing experience which most suits us, from hardcore realism to almost arcade-style submarine warfare and everything in between. It's entirely up to each of us.

What we should not do, I believe, is condemn a modder - or team - for not delivering precisely what we want from the game. The GWX Team have delivered an astonishing piece of work - but designed to meet their objectives and to fulfil their ambitions for and vision of SH3.

Generously, they decided to share the fruits of their massive labours with the rest of us, but unfortunately, some players, who do not find their preferred style of play is supported by the GWX concept, immediately start to complain and talk about "bugs," "glitches" and omissions.

The message is simple. If GWX2 doesn't deliver the kind of gaming experience you want from SH3 - leave it alone, or, if you wish, modify it yourself so that it does suit you better. I'm sure the GWX Team won't mind if you modify their work, but what they can - and do - object to is criticism based on gaming needs and expectations which aren't and never were part of their vision.

No one should ever carp, criticise or condemn people for achieving what they set out to achieve.

Very well put sir.....IMO, an excellent, detailed and informative post

[bigboywooly]

IIRC Hakahura that is indeed the file that needs to be changed

[Realplayer]

I think it is more realistic WITH the tail. The contacts on the map simulate a radio report from another u-boat. These other u-boats have for sure in reality radioed the course of the contact very precisely and not only "north west" or something like that. They watched the convoy for hours and days and radioed other u-boats to build a wolfpack. After many hours of watching a convoy, they knew the course exactly.

GWX-Devs should not be offended, i am sure your mod is great, but i prefer contacts with tails. Should not be a problem to anybody. I would like to play GWX 2 with tails. Is this possible? Would be wonderful!

OK, "data\Menu\Gui\ContLine.tga seems chanced since GWX1.03" This solves the problem? I will try it, thank you.

[Hakahura]

Thanks Bigboywooly.

Thanks Carotio for the original pointer.

Three patrols completed now with no apparent problems.

[WeeBubba]

who wants the big hollywood-style explosions anyhow?

this is a sim.

go play unreal tournament or something like that.

and losing the tails was a great move.