Sick former SS officer

[Letum]

It seams to me that this man has had his sense of morality permanently removed by
acts he was convinced to take part in and the ideas he has been convinced are just.
I both pity and despise him.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Read the book "The Holocaust The Jewish Tragedy" Your know what a Nazi was really like. The old saying i was following orders is just their cunning way of saying wasn't my fault. These camp guards killed with or without orders, they killed cause they wanted to, not because they were ordered too. They enjoyed every minute of it. Then when they lost the war they go off into hiding and when caught its "I was only following orders"

This is exactly the kind of generalisation that needs to stop if we are ever going to have any hope for peace on this Earth. Making every camp guard out to be some monster without any humanity is just plain wrong. I agree with you that they are guilty but broad generalisations like the one you just made are wrong.

[Jimbuna]

The quotes in the storyline title are what shocked me

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

This is exactly the kind of generalisation that needs to stop if we are ever going to have any hope for peace on this Earth. Making every camp guard out to be some monster without any humanity is just plain wrong. I agree with you that they are guilty but broad generalisations like the one you just made are wrong.

My sentiments exactly.

[mengle]

What i not understand is that men like hem, stil after all the suffer that germany have had after the war, adore the nazi time.

[Stealth Hunter]

"I believe Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived."


Then do us all a grand old favor and DIE, old bastard.

This never fails. The people who do good in the world die at young and unfulfilled ages while the evil ones live to be 80 or 100 years old.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

This is exactly the kind of generalisation that needs to stop if we are ever going to have any hope for peace on this Earth. Making every camp guard out to be some monster without any humanity is just plain wrong. I agree with you that they are guilty but broad generalisations like the one you just made are wrong.

Well in parts of the book it mentions one German guard who according to the Jews helped them he didn't like what was going on and was sickened by his own people. Helping them meaning he never beat them or set the dogs on them cause they were Jews, Russians or poles or in Nazi terms subhuman races Not to mention during 1944 onwards US pilots imprisoned were force to carry heavy rocks up a hill all day everytime they fell they were beaten, if they didn't get up they died where they layed - they would last a few days some not even that, usually dieing of exhaustion. This was their punishment for the US bombing Germany...

The guy mentioned in this article though is guilty as they come. Honestly If he was a man and turned around and said yes we were brutal towards our prisoners and i was part of that era and im not happy about that I was following orders but im ashamed for what i did then he would get my respect but he goes on to say I was following orders & Hilter was the greatest man alive :rotfl: Hes scum and would shoot his own mother if he was ordered too.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

SS camp guards cant deny they didnt know about what was going on.
But Waffen SS on the otherhand doesnt make you automatically a war crimiminal.
And Waffen SS had concription also, this was acknowledged in the Nurnberg trial.
The NKVD btw did more crimes than Waffen SS. If we agree in that NSDAP was a criminal party i just think that everyone joining the Communist party during Lenin and Stalin is by logic also criminal.

Well, hold your horses, I know where you're coming from and let's not go there again!

I've changed my views of the Waffen SS somewhat lately, but I would still be very careful. It was often a matter of where they were stationed. And I think pointing back at the USSR in this is totally inappropriate. I don't think anyone would EVER defend NKVD for what they did, but let's not forget the ideological pushes between the two regimes. For all that they came out with, the Soviet regime was never explicitly nationalist and never, IN DOCTRINE, advocated the "removal" of any groups of people, let alone genocide. The Nazi doctrine meanwhile was laid out well before they were in power, and quite explicitly. While I think anyone joining the NKVD in the later 30s or 40s knew just as well what they were getting into, one could excuse quite a few Soviets generally for being fooled that their state was following an essentially Marxist egalitarian doctrine which on paper had no genocidal tendencies written into it.

As for Waffen SS - those who had to choose between what they thought were the lesser of two evils (Soviet or Nazi), I can at least sympathise with the dilemma - but never condone. I think we had this before and I told you my thoughts about it that time.

For SS and NKVD survivors alike, I just wish they all die their quiet deaths now and we move on having learned from both and justifying neither.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Well, hold your horses, I know where you're coming from and let's not go there again!

I've changed my views of the Waffen SS somewhat lately, but I would still be very careful. It was often a matter of where they were stationed. And I think pointing back at the USSR in this is totally inappropriate. I don't think anyone would EVER defend NKVD for what they did, but let's not forget the ideological pushes between the two regimes. For all that they came out with, the Soviet regime was never explicitly nationalist and never, IN DOCTRINE, advocated the "removal" of any groups of people, let alone genocide. The Nazi doctrine meanwhile was laid out well before they were in power, and quite explicitly. While I think anyone joining the NKVD in the later 30s or 40s knew just as well what they were getting into, one could excuse quite a few Soviets generally for being fooled that their state was following an essentially Marxist egalitarian doctrine which on paper had no genocidal tendencies written into it.

As for Waffen SS - those who had to choose between what they thought were the lesser of two evils (Soviet or Nazi), I can at least sympathise with the dilemma - but never condone. I think we had this before and I told you my thoughts about it that time.

For SS and NKVD survivors alike, I just wish they all die their quiet deaths now and we move on having learned from both and justifying neither.

We are in agreement then, historical.
Altough IMO there has to be something in the doctrine, because everywhere it resulted in genocide and mass murder.
But we dont have to discuss that anymore.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

"I believe Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived."


Then do us all a grand old favor and DIE, old bastard.

This never fails. The people who do good in the world die at young and unfulfilled ages while the evil ones live to be 80 or 100 years old.

Evil and good is always a subject that changes truth. The west won the war. The west wrote the history books. If the nazis won the war (and thank GOD that didn't happen) you wouldn't have said that about a nazi. You might've thought so, but you wouldn't dare to say it.

He isn't evil. He's just stupid, arrogant and mad as a hatter. But not evil. There is no such thing. If only I was right about this....

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by mengle

What i not understand is that men like hem, stil after all the suffer that germany have had after the war, adore the nazi time.

Thats an interesting point. I put it down to the Nazi party coming to power during a great German depression, and seeing the country get back up on its feet again after alot of people had lost hope.

That kind of thing can make firm (yet naiive) believers out of people. Alot of people, when asked what they thought of Hitler, instantly jump to the Holocaust and World War 2, without paying consideration to events prior to that.

I'm not defending what Hitler did, or even suggesting he was a great man. I'm saying that its important to understand how people could have begun following him, and continued to follow him throughout the Holocaust and the war.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Biggles

He isn't evil. He's just stupid, arrogant and mad as a hatter.

How can people honestly believe that?

If you can stand there and tell me that Auschwitz was a 4-star hotel, something is VERY, VERY wrong with you, my friend. Oh yes, throwing children down into the cold mud and throwing cruel dogs on them is DEFINITELY how people want to be treated. Oh, maybe the gas chambers and furnaces were spa's and pools, not murder-holes and places to dispose of bodies?

The ash that rained out of the furnaces got a foot deep at one point... one foot deep. That's one foot over a mile radius that's composed of the flesh, bone, hearts, minds, and blood of murdered human beings. To top that off, that was just at Bergen-Belsen. Some of the Jews who were transported there thought it was snow at first, but dear god were they wrong. The poor Jews were so wrong.

If only it had been snow coming from a cloud overhead, raining down on a forest and not a death camp. If only it had been a stream running through the camp and not guard dogs chasing down and ripping people to shreds. If only it had been a couple of guys on a hunting trip with rifles instead of a hundred SS troopers with machine pistols killing off the Jews of the camp; one by one, day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second...

If only Hitler had died when that gas shell landed just 6 feet away from him during World War I. If only Hermann Goring had died from his parachute failing when he bailed out of his Fokker D.VII after being rammed. If only Ernst Udet had suffered the same fate as Goring. If only Rommel's tank during World War I had struck a mine or had one simple bullet ricochet inside.

Funny how things can turn out sometimes by such a seemingly small and insignificant events.

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

If only Hitler had died when that gas shell landed just 6 feet away from him during World War I. If only Hermann Goring had died from his parachute failing when he bailed out of his Fokker D.VII after being rammed. If only Ernst Udet had suffered the same fate as Goring. If only Rommel's tank during World War I had struck a mine or had one simple bullet ricochet inside.

Funny how things can turn out sometimes by such a seemingly small and insignificant events.

Be careful what you wish for.

Had any of those events you mention actually happened the result could have been far, far worse than it was. For example imagine a Reichmarshal directing the Battle of Britian who was more competant than Fatso Goering. Worse imagine a Fuhrer sane enough to listen to his best generals.

[Stealth Hunter]

Perhaps, but the Third Reich may have never existed if Hitler was killed off. Perhaps the best outcome would have been Germany winning World War I.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

If only Hitler had died when that gas shell landed just 6 feet away from him during World War I. If only Hermann Goring had died from his parachute failing when he bailed out of his Fokker D.VII after being rammed. If only Ernst Udet had suffered the same fate as Goring. If only Rommel's tank during World War I had struck a mine or had one simple bullet ricochet inside.

Funny how things can turn out sometimes by such a seemingly small and insignificant events.

If we go that far, my wiew on ww1 is that Britain, France and Russia would have started it if Germany and Austria-Hungary hadnt..
France and Britain especially have allways wanted to limit Germanys power in Europe, radicalizing it, at the same time building their own empires overseas. They made possible for Hitler to get voted into position and didnt stop him early when it was still possible. Its good for the small countries of Europe that all these empires fell apart, so they cant draw their borders in confrences.