Stop The Spraying!!!

[_Civ_]

As for that mission being incompletable, I agree. I posted my methode of completing here:


http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...5/m/2261030175

[SteamWake]

Remember ... even while surfaced. 80% of your boat is under water :hmm:

[Quagmire]

Dude, go to the USS Pampanito website and read the Fleet Type Submarine Manual.

Here is the link for ya: http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/chap3.htm#fig3-06

Go to page 29-30. Here is an quote from the manual.

3A5. Conning tower. The compartment immediately above the control room is the conning tower. (See Figure 3-6.) It is the main navigation and firing control station for the submarine. The conning tower contains the periscopes and the periscope hoist equipment, the radio direction finder, the sonar equipment, the radar equipment, the torpedo data computer (TDC), the gyro repeater, the conning tower steering stand, and the various pressure gages and indicators.

Here is a visual aid for ya:


Looks a lot like the things in this room, doesnt it?


Now this is the control room:


This looks a lot like the room BELOW the conning tower doesnt it? Here is a nice cross section of the bulkheads to make it easy for ya


Notice the CONNING TOWER is ABOVE the CONTROL ROOM and the top of the CONNING TOWER is well ABOVE the waterline when surfaced. SO HOW THE HELL DO I GET A HIGH PRESSURE LEAK FROM A VALVE ON THE CEILING OF THE CONNING TOWER WHEN SURFACED!!!!!

Even if it is some high pressure line and not a leak from the outside surely my crew would be able to isolate it after FIVE days!!!! There certainly is another shut off point for a high pressure line somewhere in the system. Then they could weld the damn busted valve shut. You cant tell me that even if they couldnt fix it at sea, they should at least be able to stop water from spraying all over the radar and sonar for five days. I think that would be a priority for the damage control team!!!

Face it. The water spray indicatior is a pretty stupid idea to immersively alert the player to hull damage. How about the Chief Engineer simply saying, "I think the hull is damaged sir"? I am no genius software developer and I thought of that one.

[swdw]

Posted my correction earlier- should have added a follow up telling you I'd corrected it. As stated before your post, I stand corrected and had misinterpreted the erlier info I was looking at.

Now to get back to the valve-

I was talking real life situations which may not apply to this valve. Tater has stated twice that this is an indicator of hull damage. In this case the hull damage is obviously NOT repairable by the crew. Although there are amazing repairs that can be made at sea, not everything is fixable. And as I've stated, just because you think you bottomed perfectly doesn't mean you did.

And as for the pics, nice to see you followed the link I gave you and then went to the sub manual link on the same page. Was hoping you'd look at the manual.

Oh one more thing about bottoming, settling at a shallow angle can cause damage to the hull when bottoming besides the other stuff mentioned.

[Quagmire]

Oh I have known about that Fleet manual for some time. I have even been aboard the Pampanito. It is an excellent museum for sure.

Anyway the bottoming issue aside, the damage cue is rediculous. I am sure that a well trained USN damage control team would find some way to stop water from spraying all over the sensitive electronics in the conning tower. And they definitely should be successful after five days.

All systems can be isolated to shut off in multiple locations if you look at the schematics in the Fleet manual. Having this valve leak water all over the radar all the way back to Pearl and not be able to do a thing about it is a HUGE immersion killer. Heck, even if they couldnt fix the valve at all whatever liquid that was spraying out would have bleed clean after five days. That is why alerting the player to massive hull damage with an unending waterfall is such a STUPID idea.

Now you know why I am calling for a mod. I am willing to help as well.
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[MONOLITH]

Originally Posted by swdw

It's very obvious from your questions/comments there's more for you to learn about submarines, underwater operations, and the effects of pressurized water and stress on a submarine. So before you start hollering for a new DM, you might want to do some reading.

*Trying to bite my tongue*


This rudeness from a man who bursts in here claiming all sorts of 'ex-submariner' experience, who didn't know the contents of a conning tower.

Shameful.




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[SteamWake]

Even more shamefull is the direction this thread is taking.

Trying to equate real life physics to a game feature, then getting into heated arguments and sniping over it's 'reality'. Its starting to sound like a school yard.

It is what it is a 'feature' to let the player know that something is wrong. How is that any worse than a little red bar that fills up ? Im no submariner but Im pretty sure they dont have little red bars.

[tater]

Guys, there are a few issues here, some legitimate damage issues and some user interface issues.

One, taking damage on the bottom, IMO, is very very easy. This is odd, because collisions with ships show the sub to be nearly invulnerable. I think that regardless of where leaks are seen, this is an issue.

Two, the leaks as a warning. There are 4 was to do this.

1. A hull integrity meter that either shows a % (bad idea, way too much information), or maybe just: Hull OK, Hull possibly damaged, Hull definitely damaged.

2. Some visual cue (ie: leaks, etc, what is in the game now)

3. The ability to ask for a damage control report, and get an answer that includes a vague hull integrity (Hull OK, Hull possibly damaged, Hull definitely damaged).

4. Nothing at all, you know the hull was compromised when you see things start to fail.

#1 is not in the game, and probably cannot be modded.

#2 is in the game and could possibly be removed, or lessened visually, no more (at least not easily). Note that it might remove leaks even when they would be good to see.

#3 is not likely possible to mod.

#4 is possible assuming you delete the leaks and mess with the damage model (Redwine's work).

Note that all the reactions to the visual cue (the leaks) are going to be opinion, some will care, some won't. On the surface I'm on deck anyway, so it's not something I'd notice much.

<shrug>

tater

[wetwarev7]

While this thread may be taking a bit of a turn for the worse, I have learned quite a bit from it(such as the water spray being an in-game indication that I may not want to submerge too deep).

Debate often helps us all to learn new things. Hopefully, we can keep this to a healthy debate, and not a personal one.

I have much to learn.....

[MONOLITH]

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

I have much to learn.....

As do we all.

Most of us give and take information with the intent of camaraderie.

There's always some who want to stand on a pedestal built upon fake knowledge, and jam their superiority down our throats with a spoonful of condescension disguised with a thinly veiled " I just want to help".





Moving forward;

Since this is a video game, and it does not correctly model all the various ocean pressures of the world or various inconsistancies of thousands of miles of ocean bottom;

I'd say our friend Quagmire had best just limp that puppy home as quickly as possible and get her patched up. His sonarman will just have to have wet shoes until then.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Oops! My bad. Sorry to contradict; I didn't even notice that part. Your statement about the bridge threw me. You're right, he is in the control room...either that, or something is wrong with the graphic.:rotfl:

To quell the riot....On the USS Torsk, when me and my daughters decide to check out the scopes, we cimb through the sail(from the deck) UP onto the bridge. At the rear is the hatch and you GO BELOW into the conning tower. Yes the walls are curved and it looks very much like the game graphic. You are infact inside the pressure hull. Below there is another ladder to the control room which looks very much like the control room in the game. It is modelled graphically very well. But, the top half of the pressure hull is above water when surfaced. Logic would dictate there should be no water spraying out of the hull. In fact, I believe it is leaking out of a pipe which is quite possible as pipes run through the boat for water transfer. If submerged and there is a leak then ok, I'll buy it but surfaced and spraying I do not. Bad graphics in this respect.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.

The Management

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

*Trying to bite my tongue*


This rudeness from a man who bursts in here claiming all sorts of 'ex-submariner' experience, who didn't know the contents of a conning tower.

Shameful.




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Ok, the man corrected himself and I suspect a nuke boat driver. I have a nuke boat driver for a friend and he could not tell you the layout of a WWII submarine if his life depended on it. Be good!

[Snuffy]

I always took the spraying to indicate a broken pipe more than hull damage ... hmmm interesting thought though.

[MONOLITH]

I have the solution fellas...

I'm going to mod the water spray to a brown color, and lable the pipe "Under pressure: From Bilge Pumps".

[Quagmire]

Yeah all this bickering is pointless. Come on over to the MODS forum and lets get serious about a damage mod folks.

Come on, all the cool kids are doing it...
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