SH3 realism nazis - got to love them

[ichso]

From that point of view no simulation ever got any realistic inputs as those would have contained the exact behaviour of water for example.
Everything that can be (economicly) programmed for such simulations are certain rules how an object should behave under certain (ingame-) conditions and even those are very limited.
If we would have an exact physical simulation at the basis everything a developer would need to do would throw a submarine into it and every propellor pulse it would do would have an impact on it's surroundings and itself. THIS would be realistic but that wouldn't produce any playable framerate .

So everything that gets simulated is just some abstraction from the reality and therefore even most simulation input lacks heavily in detail and the outcome of a simulation are just some rules for everything in it to behave some certain ways. And this is where all the tweeking starts to get it as close to real life behaviour as possible.

[bigboywooly]

Remember that this " game " or " sim " however you want to term it is played on a PC not in real life
As such limitations are placed due to the handling of things by the computer and the game engine

FI
Ideally if you damage a ship so it has stopped and you mark it on the map then go chasing the convoy its reasonable to expect the ship to be there when you go back
Well if you sail 35 to 50 KM away the ship will disappear from the players rendered units area
Entering the rendering distance of the damaged unit again will see the ship is as good as new
If the distance that ships were rendered to the player was increased to 100 or 150km the effect on the computer would drag it to a stop

Limitations

Similary with AI watch crews
No account is taken in for tiredness or lack of crew on a ship
The game goes by its programmed rules
Treating all instances the same

Meh
Not perfect but still hugely playable
And a tad addictive

[Packerton]

Silent hunter 2 is alot more realistic in the Physics Department.


The only thing I disliked about SH 2 was the Deck Gun did the same damage to a ship no matter where you hit it....so it took ages just to sink a damaged tanker with it.

[MarkShot]

I don't think there is a single ultimate subsim or game in any genre. Each has its strengths and weaknesses and/or different focus.

This is not just in the area of realism, but also in the area of game play, and atomosphere. So, I know Herr Kpt. Lehmann says "Sink them all!". I say "play them all!". As has been noted in various threads on Subsim.com and else where it is a lot easier to make older games run well on newer machines than new games run well on older machines. So, you can patrol in SH3 one day, AOD the next, SHCE the next, SC the next, DW the next, SH4, ... Enjoy each for what it does best. In fact, it is much easier to have multiple games/mods set up on one system, then try to make one game do everything the way you want it done. Also, switching between games can be very refreshing.

I find myself getting a lot less frustrated with my games by enjoying a buffet of only the best portions of each. Of course, the difficult part of this is finding adequate time for all of them and maintaining an adequate skill level in each that you are not continuous noob at the conn bumbling around. So, many here will probably play SH3/GWX for six months exclusively ... ultimately burn out ... abandon it for the next six month fixation. Myself, I will probably be playing SH3/GWX for the next four or more years on and off. Save games and patrol logs make this a cinch do.

Play them all!

[Iron Budokan]

It's true simulations are an abstraction of reality, but as computer processing power becomes greater and greater the gap of abstraction will narrow.

Think of what sims were like ten years ago. Now try to imagine what they will be like ten years from now. You can't, because it's an asymptotic curve, not linear.

Ten years from now the new Silent Hunter release (fingers crossed) will make what we have now look like it came from a box of Cracker Jacks.

Fifty years from now? You really will get to play DiD....

[MarkShot]

Actually, the games of 10 years ago had better game play (AI), balance, and software quality. Mainly what 10 years had gotten PC gamers is staggering improvements in graphics and moderate improvement in sound. However, that didn't come for free. Other areas of projects schedules and budgets suffered to make it happen.

Ten years from now, you will be able to walk through a virtual sub that is photo realistic. However, there will still be no wolfpack and the escorts will hunt for you using an algorithm that could be coded in 50 lines of BASIC.

[Crimguy]

I agree with that sentiment Mark. My biggest gripe with SH3 has nothing to do with the inertia (although it is pretty lousy), but the sonar model in this game. The DD's are much too capable, and can hear a uboat at all stop with hydrophones despite themselves chugging along at 12 kts. I don't think the Reuben James could accomplish that feat unless the Kaleun was piping Enter Sandman through the comm system.

The GWX boys seem to indicate in their literature that SH3 models active sonar to some extent, but my experience is that it's a little more simple than that.

I'm all for graphics upgrades, but it kills me that develpers stop working on the underpinnings of their products. War in the Pacific has one of the most moronic AI's in existence, and as far as I can tell is unchanged from PacWar other than having fancier scripting for the first 3 months of the war (I think PacWar's interface was more serviceable too - and this is coming from a guy who thinks WitP is the greatest game ever despite the flaws).

[Iron Budokan]

Okay, I'm going to be a realism nazi here. It's the stars. They twinkle too fast. They often look like signal lights up in the sky. Yes, stars twinkle, but not like that.

Also, when I'm in the conning tower I should be able to see glare from the lights on the glass over the dials, depending on what angle I'm viewing from. Yes, glare. I want it.

Also, I should be able to get a dose of the clap when I'm in Lorient. I mean, really. Is this a sub sim or not? More like an arcade game to me, if I can't simulate catching a dose. Some games are so shoddy nowadays. This oversight is outrageous and I hope it's fixed in the upcoming GWX mod.

Another thing. The crapper. Everyone is always whining about how they want the torp room or engine room modded. Puh-leeze. We must have the crapper modded, and it must be fully functional with working components.

These things are important, people!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Notes to self for SH5:

Must model random chance of contracting venereal disease in port. Process must also include chance of crab epidemic at sea.

Olfactory engine must allow for initially foul scent emenations with each opening of the hatch that increase until boat is aired.

Perform product acceptance study on possible introduction of real freezing water and depth charges.

[Reece]

foul scent emenations with each opening of the hatch

The way technology is going it wouldn't surprise me if they came out with a computer periferal called "Smellavision", then you could open the hatch and ......

[Crimguy]

Originally Posted by Reece

The way technology is going it wouldn't surprise me if they came out with a computer periferal called "Smellavision", then you could open the hatch and ......

Television will never be replaced by Smellivision(tm), despite Bugs Bunny's predictions.