In the long-term this is ruinous for Germany

[Tchocky]

Sky, it's only ruinous if they are voted in.

So let's worry about the German voter instead of those they havent voted for yet.
If the transfer will be as large as you say, then the existing parties will have to get off their collective......laurels :P

[elite_hunter_sh3]

tried it... mehh.. the .408 is more accurate... less recoil but still packs the firepower to tear a hole thru ur head the size of a tennis ball .

altho... my uncle used to own this gun





12.7 x 99 Browining .50BMG or the
12.7 x 107 DSHK .50cal bullet
14.5kg
888 m /s muzzle velocity
1.6km max range...

i let off 20 shots with this beast before my uncle had to return it... (fauly safety mechanism and the spring in the mag was a little weak.. plus my vacation time was over )

[dean_acheson]

We failed to compromise once in this country, in 1860.

[AntEater]

Since when did Skybird become all commie hater?

Seeing the Linkspartei as a thread is simply rubbish. There are people who are leftists and as long as no legislation exists to put them into concentration camps, they should have a political party.
And to paint Lafontaine as such a threat, this guy was prime minister of the Saarland for years without establishing a soviet system. Actually he didnt lose the Saarland for the SPD, that was left to the imbecile who followed him.
If the SPD leaves its own left wing out in the desert they shouldnt be suprised a new party takes the place.
Also a party which mainly consists of people above 50 is hardly revolutionary. The western clientele of the Linkspartei are "68ers" mostly.
And Lafontaine really does not propose anything more radical than a return to 1970s style economic policy. A bit unrealistic, but hardly revolutionary.

[Happy Times]

If commies get leadership in the left they ARE a danger. Thats why in Finland the right wing parties and social democrats have through out independence worked together to contain them.

[dean_acheson]

Well, you know the professional left, they should have their chance to run whatever country into the ground for a generation, and then a conservative/free market type will get elected, salvage the economy, then the professors, hippies, and professional agitators get together, yell about all the oppression, and after a few years attempt to redistribute the wealth again, and screw up the economy since there is no incentive to getting ahead/working.

Whoa, kinda obvious that I was reading David Horowitz last night, eh?

I should try to at least stiffle the invective sometimes. That is what happens when you spend too long in college being browbeat by professors for not thinking Che Guevera was the second coming of JCH.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AntEater

Since when did Skybird become all commie hater?

Seeing the Linkspartei as a thread is simply rubbish. There are people who are leftists and as long as no legislation exists to put them into concentration camps, they should have a political party.
And to paint Lafontaine as such a threat, this guy was prime minister of the Saarland for years without establishing a soviet system. Actually he didnt lose the Saarland for the SPD, that was left to the imbecile who followed him.
If the SPD leaves its own left wing out in the desert they shouldnt be suprised a new party takes the place.
Also a party which mainly consists of people above 50 is hardly revolutionary. The western clientele of the Linkspartei are "68ers" mostly.
And Lafontaine really does not propose anything more radical than a return to 1970s style economic policy. A bit unrealistic, but hardly revolutionary.

Don't be misled by some people calling me a leftie for my criticism of some aspects of American policies, or ultra-liberal capitalism, or stockm arket system, or whatever, because for them you are automatically a leftie when you do not totally support their rightwing conservative mainstream course. If you think I am a solcialist becasue of my usual posts, than you are miules off target. Social, socialism and communism are three different things, and I never bought the idea of communism or socialism. what I would define as social responsebility (that's as left as I ever could become) is too left for the neocons and liberal capitalists, and is too rightwinged for real lefties and socialists, so one more time I am sitting between all chairs again, which I like very much . I feel like Helmut Schmidt again, who labelled himself as "Sozialdemokrat". With that he was already so little leftist that his own party, the SPD, let him down and even tries to ignore him today when he is awarded a lifetime acchievement award, like this month in Berlin. All parties sent representatives, only the SPD was missing. As a matter of fact, thoughts like that of Schmidt never had a home in the SPD. And when I already at no costs would line up with the SPD, how much less sympathy must I have for Die Linke...!?

[AntEater]

Good point.
Having my experience with leftist protesting crowds at the University, there are many things I don't like about professional leftists as well.
Problem is, compared to the current mainstream in media and german politics, I understand they have an appeal to many people, me included.
Maybe I'm somewhat more of a marxist than you are (I suppose that's also because I'm younger), but my admiration is for the man himself, not so much for his acolytes.
Yes, I actually read Marx.
The Linkspartei's viewpoints on foreign policy and military affairs are mostly downright idiotic and unrealistic, but they often take up issues that are left alone, like civil liberties and such.
My problem is similar to yours: I'm too patriotic and too much a realpolitiker to have any place within the left, and too much an opponent of the current crop of politicians and media moguls and their policies to have a home in the right wing. Not to mention that active participation on the right wing is still much about family backround and belonging to the right student's fraternity, both of which I lack.
But I don't think demonizing the Linkspartei will help matters. The Linkspartei is actually quite convenient and it can be used as a boogieman and scapegoat for the established parties.

[Smaragdadler]

[conspiracy theory on]
1. Lafontaine is a freemason. (so, part of global establishment]
2. His "mission" is to "steer" Eastgerman "opposition" to FRG.
3. the most "dangerous" oppostion to FRG is the NPD [The "Nazis"] (not really, because NPD is also steered by german intelligence, but not direct, only through 'agent provocateurs' )
4. so - nothing really to worry about (if you part with the global-establishment)
5. no source from my part this time - take it as you get it.
[/conspiracy theory off]

[Skybird]

I have read a bit of Marx too, and agree with many of his analysis of the current situation ("current" for him and his age)- he was a very precise observer, and a sharp analyst. I also agree with some of his assumptions on the future. But I also differ with quite some of his conclusions on what to do.

Judging only by the little I read of Marx, of course.

I often said that I see democracy, capitalism, socialism, communism failing for one and the same reason: false assumnptions on the reasonable, altruistic nature of man. But most of our acts and decisions are not fomred by our reason, but by our mood, by our emotion, by our selfishness, by our greed and envy. This physical body we are has a life of it's own, and that life is about physical survival by physical consummation and security, practiced by a dogma of: "the important thing first - and that is me".

But when enough is not enough, than it will never be enough.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

rightwing conservative mainstream course.

Kinda all over the political map there aren't ya Sky?

[Smaragdadler]

When it comes to the heartical "Jew" Marx, I actual part with the heartical occultistic "Englishmen" Crowley, whoes judgement about Marx was a heartical-something like, "two third of it - genial, - but the last third completely idiotic..."


Aleister Crowley

[dean_acheson]

Crowley?

[Skybird]

Alistair Crowley. Famous esoteric and occultist, famous for "the Book Toth" and the Crowley-Tarot.

[AntEater]

Political and economical philosopher extraordinaire.....
:rotfl: