Is there a way to ask the WO for a solution? - Page 2

AVGWarhawk · 05-14-07, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Maybe I'm missing something, but what was the difference between WO assistance and AUTO TDC in SH3?

From what I remember, in both cases you are spoon fed a solution, the only difference is that with WO assistance, you can pretend you are still using manual TDC.

It was not a matter of pretending to use manual. It takes away the fully automated targeting system. With WO assist, he did some of the rudimentry calculations for you. Look at this way, in SH4 you simply are the captain and the WO at the TDC. Since we can't scream out AOB, speed and range, we have to manually put these values in as if we were talking to the WO. It has been a while for SH3 for me and I do not remember what the WO did to assist and possibly the uboat TDC could lend itself to having WO assist where the US version of TDC does not lend itself to having assist in the game. It is either all manual or let the computer do it for you by just locking the scope. What is needed and discussed in another thread (also had pictures and documentation), the US scope and TDC had a button to send information to the TDC. We are missing this here. That button in SH3 (locking the target) fed the TDC for the WO office to assist in solution.

I'm sure some will say there was not a feed to the TDC in the US version but I have seen the documentation and I know Run Silent, Run Deep is just a movie but one scene in the movie is on the bridge with a person clicking the button on the TBT. Also, I believe SH2 had the button as well. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ducimus · 05-14-07, 07:26 PM

Acutally i know what happened to the Weapons Officer. The higher powers that be, reconginzed is unerring ability to calculate a firing solution in less time it takes most people to pass gas. He has since been given a promotion and was put in charge of his on submarine. After a couple magnificant patrols, they decided he was too valuable, and sent him off as an instructor for submarine school.

vindex · 05-14-07, 08:54 PM

Yeah, the problem with the WO was that he was (a) instantaneous and (b) perfect. I think it's reasonable to have some delegation to crew in the game. But when you delegate, you should be somewhat dependent on their abilities. It would be good if you had to assign and develop a WO over time (including via practice exercises), and that experience, fatigue, and morale all had an effect on his turnaround time and accuracy. If you doubt his solution, either because he's inexperience or impaired in some way, you can re-run the solution yourself manually and adjust. Otherwise, if you have confidence and don't have the time to spare, you can rely purely on his performance.

Probably not moddable, but I would like to see THAT in future games. Not just for the WO, but other positions. Your nav officer should have the potential to get you lost if you're not checking up on him. Your engineering officer should have an effect on breakdowns.

senorbeef · 05-15-07, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Maybe I'm missing something, but what was the difference between WO assistance and AUTO TDC in SH3?

From what I remember, in both cases you are spoon fed a solution, the only difference is that with WO assistance, you can pretend you are still using manual TDC.

Manual TDC with weapon officer assistance gave you a lot more flexibility in how you want to tackle the game. The scalable realism appeals to a lot of people.

I used to go with manual targetting, and when I was learning how to fire, I'd set up my own solution, and then ask for the WO for a solution, and see where I'd gone wrong. I'm having a hard time learning the US TDC because I don't have that option anymore - when I'm wrong, I don't know how.

Or I'd have the option, if I was in a situation that allowed me time, of manually making solutions - but if I only had a few moments to take a shot at the target, I still had the option of using a WO solution.

Or I could use a WO solution to give me a starting point, and then update it/tweak it myself, if I were so inclined.

Having the manual TDC/WO option gave you a lot more flexibility in how you played the game. As it is currently, it's either extremely easy, or extremely difficult. The game suffers a lot by not having this option anymore.

vindex · 05-15-07, 04:34 AM

Having a WO makes it possible to simulate the creation (by your well-trained crew!) of solutions for multiple targets simultaneously. Does anyone know if the weapons station could actually do this? From the sub movies I dimly recall, it seems reasonable that they could. Without the WO, it is extremely difficult to set up a shot on more than one target without the risk that your second, quickie solution might be way off.

Having a WO also made it a lot easier to target a particular aiming point on the ship.

Bilge_Rat · 05-15-07, 09:11 AM

I knew my reply would get a few responses.

I used to use the WO in SH3, since I was lousy in manual TDC, but it was abit of a cheat since he gives you a perfect solution, sort of like auto TDC, but again it is a personal choice.

I actually find manual TDC easier in SH4, in part because the lack of a working chronometer forced me to learn proper RL techniques, but also because the US TDC as implemented in the game is much more sophisticated and flexible than the SH3 TDC.

In SH3, as soon as you had a solution, you had to fire right away, since the solution is only accurate at that instant. The SH4 U.S. TDC constantly updates the solution so you can wait and still have a good solution, it also allows you to check if your solution is good, something which you cannot do in SH3.

Furthermore, in SH4, you can easily shift the trajectory of individual torpedoes 1 or more degree left or right on the fly to setup a spread. All in all, much more user friendly.

In SH3, I was a lousy shot while in SH4, I'm hitting 80-90% of the time.

Anvart · 05-15-07, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruschi sauro

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The only solution he will give you is 1 part water, 4 parts scotch....the 1 part water is optional. The WO does not assist like SH3 and I sure do miss the guy.

I prefear one part of Martini and ten part of Gin, this drink is called Montgomery...:rotfl:

No Gin ... Vodka, Yes!

FIREWALL · 05-15-07, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macky

They should patch the manual too:p:rotfl::rotfl:

Now thats the first time i've seen that posted. I love it :p :rotfl: :rotfl:

Good one macky :p

05-15-07, 09:11 AM	#21
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	I knew my reply would get a few responses. I used to use the WO in SH3, since I was lousy in manual TDC, but it was abit of a cheat since he gives you a perfect solution, sort of like auto TDC, but again it is a personal choice. I actually find manual TDC easier in SH4, in part because the lack of a working chronometer forced me to learn proper RL techniques, but also because the US TDC as implemented in the game is much more sophisticated and flexible than the SH3 TDC. In SH3, as soon as you had a solution, you had to fire right away, since the solution is only accurate at that instant. The SH4 U.S. TDC constantly updates the solution so you can wait and still have a good solution, it also allows you to check if your solution is good, something which you cannot do in SH3. Furthermore, in SH4, you can easily shift the trajectory of individual torpedoes 1 or more degree left or right on the fly to setup a spread. All in all, much more user friendly. In SH3, I was a lousy shot while in SH4, I'm hitting 80-90% of the time. Last edited by Bilge_Rat; 05-15-07 at 10:16 AM.

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05-14-07, 07:26 PM	#17
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Acutally i know what happened to the Weapons Officer. The higher powers that be, reconginzed is unerring ability to calculate a firing solution in less time it takes most people to pass gas. He has since been given a promotion and was put in charge of his on submarine. After a couple magnificant patrols, they decided he was too valuable, and sent him off as an instructor for submarine school.

05-14-07, 08:54 PM	#18
vindex Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 192 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Yeah, the problem with the WO was that he was (a) instantaneous and (b) perfect. I think it's reasonable to have some delegation to crew in the game. But when you delegate, you should be somewhat dependent on their abilities. It would be good if you had to assign and develop a WO over time (including via practice exercises), and that experience, fatigue, and morale all had an effect on his turnaround time and accuracy. If you doubt his solution, either because he's inexperience or impaired in some way, you can re-run the solution yourself manually and adjust. Otherwise, if you have confidence and don't have the time to spare, you can rely purely on his performance. Probably not moddable, but I would like to see THAT in future games. Not just for the WO, but other positions. Your nav officer should have the potential to get you lost if you're not checking up on him. Your engineering officer should have an effect on breakdowns.

05-15-07, 04:34 AM	#20
vindex Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 192 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Having a WO makes it possible to simulate the creation (by your well-trained crew!) of solutions for multiple targets simultaneously. Does anyone know if the weapons station could actually do this? From the sub movies I dimly recall, it seems reasonable that they could. Without the WO, it is extremely difficult to set up a shot on more than one target without the risk that your second, quickie solution might be way off. Having a WO also made it a lot easier to target a particular aiming point on the ship.