The Silent Hunter IV (Pacific Campaign) WISH-LIST

[Berserker2]

I just finished reading the interview of the SH4 DevTeam......very good!

One point you brought up was phosphorescence of sub and torpedo wakes. That's a really good item and I hope it can be included in the game.

Back in the early 60's I was a pilot flying S2 Tracker ASW aircraft on the East Coast and we did some night tracking exercises with the Nautilus.....yes, THAT Nautilus. After dropping sonobuoys abeam her while she was on the surface so we could get readings and recordings, she then dove so we could see how well our tracking equipment worked and I was amazed, looking down at how easy it was to follow her by that phosphorescent wake. Not sure how deep the boat was when I lost sight of her, but I'd have to estimate at least 100' or so. She also booted it in the butt and we lost her completely a short time later ,as noisy as she was, she was still way too fast for us to effectively track her with passive buoys that you had to drop a little minibomb on to act as an echo pulse.

I'm really looking forward to SH4 as I've always loved the original SH1 and the campaign it had. There's just something about the Pacific!!!

Bill

[edjcox]

Several quick wish list items came to my mind..

1. Enemy submarines, seemingly dismissed in Neils interview by UBI. The Japanese submarines posed a significant threatto our submarines and many were engaged and possibly sunk by them. The enormous variety and abilities of Japanese submarines made for interesting adversaries. Midgets, Seaplane carriers present interesting scenarios for missions. Find the mother ships and sink them. Track down and kill a submarine seaplane mobile base etc. I think knowing there may be periscopes looking for you as well is to important a facet of the game to simply dismiss.

2. The ability to fire colored flares from the conning tower (red, white, blue, green) for special signals in Wolfpacks, identification, turn points,etc. Historically accurate flares were used a lot.

3. Pilot recovery, including approaches, enemy air overcap, and some neat twists like encountering both enemy and allied survivors and recovery. Could be interesting if a crew might obtain vital sea lane intelligence from those adrift if they are recovered.

4. Ability to dump oil, the famous torpedo launch of fake debris, dead crew, to confirm to the enemy a sinking...

5. The inclusion of the historical torpedo fusing difficulty.

6. The use of Deck guns and machine guns on light vessels and wooden vessels. Realistic debris, damage, explosions initiated, fuel leaks, fires started. Incendiary shells (white phosphorous) for surface tanker attacks.

7. Realistic AI reaction to radio messages from sub and intercept for location.

I'll keep growing the list but my impression is that time is short and so is manpower at UBI for this project.

****

UBI might do well to keep a certain amount of the metadata on servers that only game owners can access and download to their PC's. Thus certain elements of the game might grow over time and extend the development of certain game elements beyond the initial release date...


Laters...

[ijozic]

How about starting the campaign before the war so that you have a prewar patrols where you would train, test the sub, some recon missions, tracking Japanese fleets, etc?

[Lionman]

Having just finished reading the otherwise excellent review of the state of play regarding SH IV I confess to already being dissappointed as, reading between the lines, it sounds as if they are simply going to give us SH 3 + enhanced graphics and gameplay. Not that this isn't good, as I am a huge fan of the SH series and think SH3 is a benchmark for this type of simulator. BUT . . . . . the developers are seemingly ignoring the clamour from the whole community for more and better realism INSIDE the submarine and movement within the hull. This is a BIG DISSAPOINTMENT.

Why?

Because the whole ethos of submarine warfare revolves around being "trapped inside your sub in the midst of battle" so the whole game actually focusses on the sub's interior in combat and on long voyages. Think of Das Boot - we all became intimately familiar with that U Boat and the program makers knew that this was so crucial that they built a whole WW2 submarine and filmed live on board. This was absurdly difficult and expensive but it made the difference between another run-of-the-mill war series and a great all-time classic, possibly THE all time classic of the submarine genre.

So developers - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE heed the community's many many many requests for this aspect of the simulation to be enhanced. Restricted motion on board and those badly drawn and unconvincing AI avatars are just not good enough.

I am a Sub Sim enthusiast and a former professional underwater person (North Sea diver) and I tweaked my SH4 with a nice start up movie sequence inside real WW2 submarines from Das Boot, but I had to use the black and white version because when I used the colour version the transition into the SH3 sub's control room was just too unrealistic by comparison. You can't allocate grillions of polygons to complex warship graphics, then ruin the realism and immersion by leaving the human faces of the crew blocky, fixed, wooden and cartoon-like. We humans are more sensitive to the human face than any other image in our world, so the interior realism of the sub, motion within it and the convincing "look" of the AI crew are CRUCIAL to the realism of a submarine simulator.

Submarine warfare, just like living in saturation diving systems, which is very similar (and I did that for 17 years) is "up close and personal" and the realism of that interior world is totally crucial to SH 4. SH3 was a quantum leap forward from SH2 but SH4 must give us the ability to move around inside the subs, access more compartments and be with more realistic looking AI avatars. (Think of the faces of the avatars in Brothers in Arms for example.)

Otherwise SH4 will just be seen as a glorified add-on or "SH3 mark 2" and you will lose half your sales because the majority will see it as "more of the same" with a few cosmetic changes, however unfair that is. I have been a sales and marketing manager too since my offshore years and I seriously stress that you ignore this aspect of SH4 at your peril. The community (your market and buyers) made a BIG issue of how much they wanted the dynamic campaign in SH3 and you listened and did it. So don't ignore the fact that virtually every virtual submariner's wish-list has included the request for movement within the sub and more interior detail and realism.

We virtual submariner's want to "believe we are there" and "there" is INSIDE OUR SUBMARINE however marvellous the exterior world is. Personally I find the ocean world of SH 3 so realistic that I often take voyages in rainy weather just for the feeling of "sea time" in the NOrth Sea, my old professional work environment. My only real criticism is that in the real deep ocean the waves are MUCH BIGGER than they ever appear in SH3 and if we had bigger waves in SH4 the far closer visual horizon could surely be used to compensate for polygon demands? Seriously guys towering waves look even more dramatic from a lowe waterline craft like a sub and the awesome scary magesty of the ocean is really imposing from that perspective. Try crossing between two vessels offshore in an inflatable. Within 20 yards you are lost in a landscape of moving grey hills even in fairly mild weather and in a Force 5 plus it is really terrifying from that low perspective. The same applies ot small yachts in big seas offshore, something I have also expereinced first hand. The two "stars" of a submarine combat simulator are the ocean and the submarine itself. You could even use that as a marketing tag line because it is absolutely true.

In general the SH series is excellent and totally unparalleled in the history of simulations and we appreciate your work guys but remember that we scrutinise it perhaps more closely than any other online combat market of players.

The new multiplayer stress in SH4 sounds EXCELLENT as I for one play simulators mainly for social reasons and the single player game is far less important to me. I want human opponents and colleagues.

My personal dream is a multi-crewed submarine online which I could crew with my buddies, just as multi-crewed online aircraft have become possible in the combat flight sim world. There are few experiences more immersive or productive of cameraderie than sharing combat as a team online and I have made many great friends this way.

[-Pv-]

I was pleased with the interview and liked what I heard. I've waited years for this sim and it has the features I expected. I'll be one of the 1st in line. I also expect it will meet or excede SHIII sales based on US sales alone. I'm not a super-critical realist. I've just enjoyed sub sims for the last 20 years and the Pacific has always been my favorite. I want a chance at sinking those many many carriers and their escort fleets. To balance out the small problem of the US technology making hitting and evading easier as the war progresses, you also have to get smarter about finding fewer ships. There were carriers to sink right up to the end and US boats were still being sunk near the end.
-Pv-

Originally Posted by Lionman

Having just finished reading the otherwise excellent review of the state of play regarding SH IV I confess to already being dissappointed as, reading between the lines, it sounds as if they are simply going to give us SH 3 + enhanced graphics and gameplay. Not that this isn't good, as I am a huge fan of the SH series and think SH3 is a benchmark for this type of simulator. BUT . . . . . the developers are seemingly ignoring the clamour from the whole community for more and better realism INSIDE the submarine and movement within the hull. This is a BIG DISSAPOINTMENT.

Why?

Because the whole ethos of submarine warfare revolves around being "trapped inside your sub in the midst of battle" so the whole game actually focusses on the sub's interior in combat and on long voyages. Think of Das Boot - we all became intimately familiar with that U Boat and the program makers knew that this was so crucial that they built a whole WW2 submarine and filmed live on board. This was absurdly difficult and expensive but it made the difference between another run-of-the-mill war series and a great all-time classic, possibly THE all time classic of the submarine genre.

So developers - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE heed the community's many many many requests for this aspect of the simulation to be enhanced. Restricted motion on board and those badly drawn and unconvincing AI avatars are just not good enough.

I am a Sub Sim enthusiast and a former professional underwater person (North Sea diver) and I tweaked my SH4 with a nice start up movie sequence inside real WW2 submarines from Das Boot, but I had to use the black and white version because when I used the colour version the transition into the SH3 sub's control room was just too unrealistic by comparison. You can't allocate grillions of polygons to complex warship graphics, then ruin the realism and immersion by leaving the human faces of the crew blocky, fixed, wooden and cartoon-like. We humans are more sensitive to the human face than any other image in our world, so the interior realism of the sub, motion within it and the convincing "look" of the AI crew are CRUCIAL to the realism of a submarine simulator.

Submarine warfare, just like living in saturation diving systems, which is very similar (and I did that for 17 years) is "up close and personal" and the realism of that interior world is totally crucial to SH 4. SH3 was a quantum leap forward from SH2 but SH4 must give us the ability to move around inside the subs, access more compartments and be with more realistic looking AI avatars. (Think of the faces of the avatars in Brothers in Arms for example.)

Otherwise SH4 will just be seen as a glorified add-on or "SH3 mark 2" and you will lose half your sales because the majority will see it as "more of the same" with a few cosmetic changes, however unfair that is. I have been a sales and marketing manager too since my offshore years and I seriously stress that you ignore this aspect of SH4 at your peril. The community (your market and buyers) made a BIG issue of how much they wanted the dynamic campaign in SH3 and you listened and did it. So don't ignore the fact that virtually every virtual submariner's wish-list has included the request for movement within the sub and more interior detail and realism.

We virtual submariner's want to "believe we are there" and "there" is INSIDE OUR SUBMARINE however marvellous the exterior world is. Personally I find the ocean world of SH 3 so realistic that I often take voyages in rainy weather just for the feeling of "sea time" in the NOrth Sea, my old professional work environment. My only real criticism is that in the real deep ocean the waves are MUCH BIGGER than they ever appear in SH3 and if we had bigger waves in SH4 the far closer visual horizon could surely be used to compensate for polygon demands? Seriously guys towering waves look even more dramatic from a lowe waterline craft like a sub and the awesome scary magesty of the ocean is really imposing from that perspective. Try crossing between two vessels offshore in an inflatable. Within 20 yards you are lost in a landscape of moving grey hills even in fairly mild weather and in a Force 5 plus it is really terrifying from that low perspective. The same applies ot small yachts in big seas offshore, something I have also expereinced first hand. The two "stars" of a submarine combat simulator are the ocean and the submarine itself. You could even use that as a marketing tag line because it is absolutely true.

In general the SH series is excellent and totally unparalleled in the history of simulations and we appreciate your work guys but remember that we scrutinise it perhaps more closely than any other online combat market of players.

The new multiplayer stress in SH4 sounds EXCELLENT as I for one play simulators mainly for social reasons and the single player game is far less important to me. I want human opponents and colleagues.

My personal dream is a multi-crewed submarine online which I could crew with my buddies, just as multi-crewed online aircraft have become possible in the combat flight sim world. There are few experiences more immersive or productive of cameraderie than sharing combat as a team online and I have made many great friends this way.

I couldn't have said it better if I'd worked at trying for years. Bravo!! And I totally agree 110%

[Berserker2]

Originally Posted by edjcox

1. Enemy submarines, seemingly dismissed in Neils interview by UBI. The Japanese submarines posed a significant threatto our submarines and many were engaged and possibly sunk by them. The enormous variety and abilities of Japanese submarines made for interesting adversaries. Midgets, Seaplane carriers present interesting scenarios for missions. Find the mother ships and sink them. Track down

Got to agree completely here. I watched a program on...History, Military..one of those type channels several months ago and they brought out the fact that in WW2 Japan has the largest and most varied submarine fleet of any nation plus the fact that some of their subs were WAY more advanced than Allied AND German boats.

So I cast my vote for having Japanese submarines included for our dining pleasure. (IF we're sharp)

I think the main point just about everyone is trying to emphasize here is that although SH3 was good, it's also yesterdays' news/technology and although some things can be carried over to SH4, we want as big a step forward as was done between SH2 and SH3, the formar being a total disaster IMHO!

Just my 2 cents worth!!

Bill

[Hylander_1314]

Guys / Girls,

If this has been mentioned before, bear with me, I've been reading for hours.

When in shallower waters, where you can set the boat on the bottom or run close to it, have it impact the ASW devices as it should. Also where it was known, when you zoom in on the map(s), to have the known depth gradiants there. If the area was uncharted at the time, be careful while sailing there. And let us not forget the tides, as it can effect how you move through shallower areas. Reefs, and crystal clear lagoons, with breakwater waves, to make the clandestine jobs more interesting, and some of the recon and ASR missions.

[Nightmare]

I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but I’d like to see an accurate model of the TDC. The TDC equipped on the US Submarines was just more than the angle solver; it was also a position keeper that kept the solution up to date. That way after several observation and corrections (if necessary) if the final bearing matched that of the projected bearing on the TDC, you knew you had an accurate firing solution.

More info on the TDC here

I'd also like to see an accurate stadimeter with the split prism. You’d need to know the masthead height of your target, but then it’s just a mater of adjusting the superimposed image so that the second image waterline is set to the masthead of the actual image. I never could get accurate ranges with the line adjustment to masthead height in SH3.

My personal wishes:

1) Ability to pre-set crew watches for different conditions, and set as well their duty times so that they automatically under normal patrol conditions rotate, but still have the option to override that when necessary.

2) Freedom to move throughout the entire sub, and control things from the individual compartments. For instance, loading torpedoes from the torpedo compartments. I liked the ability to 'immerse' by commanding the officers in the control room instead of just using keystrokes and shortcut clicks (although they come in handy too --grins--) and I'd love the ability to do that throughout the entire boat.

3) Better internal and external visual and auditory damage effects. I hate seeing and hearing water spraying in the command room because I still have damage in the stern quarters.

4) Have the ability to dump oil and air to fake being damaged and sunk.

5) Better modelled and more realistic weather conditions and visual effects of weather.

6) Have chances of losing externally stored ordanance (especially torpedoes) when shelled or depth charged, and also if forced to dive when reloading an external torpedo.

7) Better detailed and informative manuals. I still can't believe how much was left out of the SHIII user manual. Even things like explaining what the different symbols, like the ones that appear when a compartment is damaged, mean. Yeah, sure, after a bit I figured out what they mean, but I shouldn't have to play guessing-games to determine what various symbols and indicators mean. Or what the option of 'synchronizing' does or doesn't do.

8) More 'interaction' with fellow Allied forces and bases.

9) Change the way navigation is done. As it is, I can set waypoints on the map and, with no sun for a week still manage to navigate dead to the meter. Same if I'm submerged; I can set waypoints and hit them dead on. I'm not looking for navigation to become overly complex, but just a bit more realistic.

Okies, I guess that's enough for now.

[humesdog]

There are lots of pages before this, I didn't take the time to go through them all but I think I have a neat idea if it hasn't been discussed yet.

The ability to give commands to the sub and then sit back and let the sim run until something happens. For instance, you could enter in instructions to the sim like 1) sail via waypoint A-B-C on the surface 2) make sound dives every four hours 3) sweep radar once every hour, etc. Then the sim runs those instructions with your chosen level of time compression. If your soundman hears something on a sound dive, the sim stops or plays a sound or does something and lets you know. If you're jumped by a plane the sim stops, alerts you and waits for your next command.

There's a lot of blue out there (and the Pacific is so much larger) and I can't tell you how many times I wanted to just let the computer run as I did a load of laundry or watched tv, or was out of eyeshot or earshot of the computer, etc. I think certainly type IX enthusiasts will appreciate this and even the smaller patrols. Even running at 512 TC it takes a while to get to your patrol zones and if you want to be historically accurate and take sound dives and such, you have to sit there for hours just to reach your patrol zone.

But I do like sailing to the zones! I don't want that to be removed, just a way to set instructions and leave the sim running and not have to constantly check on it. What do you think?

[THE_MASK]

What i would like is to buy SH4 as a pacific theatre on 1 DVD . The other DVD can be an expansion with the tools and files nessesary to add the rest of the WW2 world in myself . I hope this is not too much to ask. Looking forward to seeing the extra dvd in the case . Cheers Sober.

[Brausepaul]

Better crew management:

Crew members can be transfered away to man new (other) boats.

Player is subject to transfers:

Something like a maximum number of missions the player can do (optional) before he is transfered away from frontline duty. It always bothered me that there was no actual limit that keeps one from sinking 1.2 million tons in four years of war patrolling.

Something

Hey, I know it's to late to add, but a wish-list is a wish-list...

[Berserker2]

I think it'd be interesting to be able to play the Japanese. After all, the IJN, for the most part, had better and more varied types of submarines than any other navy in WW2. Plus their Long Lance torpedos were absolutely deadly. Unfortunately (for them) they seemed more in love with the surface ships and never did make very good use of their submarine fleet.

Bill

[cyttorak]

maybe someone already mentioned about this, it's too big list for me to browse.

the wish:
what happened to captain's cabin?
in sh3 there was a calendar with different stages of moon -> quite useful to pinpoint your attack in bibleblack environment.