Why Atheism Is Morally Bankrupt - A thought since we are celebrating Christs birth...

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Letum

I agree!
You are right and reality has nothing to do with it.

Heh, that was pretty funny. :rotfl:

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I suspect this is because god came into conflict with something major in your life, so you found a way to discount him.

That is why I like talking to you. You can still have a reasonable conversation, and an objective one.

-S

:rotfl:

Kids, I think it's time for a song. Ready?

Gimme that old time religion!
Gimme that old time religion!
Gimme that old time religion!
It's good enough for me!

It was good for Old Jonah!
It was good for Old Jonah!
It was good for Old Jonah,
And it's good enough for me!

:rotfl:

[peterloo]

Originally Posted by Letum

Could you give an example of an atheist using a religious definition of morality?
How do you think those who have never been exposed to a moralizing religion at all
gain their moral behavior?
And finally, how can the moral guidance from religion be shown to be correct. Especially
when many people would consider the moral guidance from some exotic religions to be
highly immoral?

I try to answer all three question one by one. Again, feel free to reveal the flaws within them. I'll try my best to eliminate them but sometimes it is inevitable.

Q: Could you give an example of an atheist using a religious definition of morality?
A: I don't think I can give one, as you don't believe in the religious definition unless you are a believer, but the definition of morality is similiar between religious people and atheists, as what skybird has pointed out, to evade pain and sufferings

Q: How do you think those who have never been exposed to a moralizing religion at all gain their moral behavior?
A: I'm afraid your assumption may have some flaws. Some people who have never been exposed to a moralizing religion may not have a moral behavoir. For example, the monkey boy, John Ssabunnya, (info here: http://www.occultopedia.com/j/john_ssabunnya.htm) did not received any religious education due to his little age when he escaped into the jungle. When he was found, he ate in an errectric way. He did not wear clothes. He had long finger nails and infested with fleas. These are contradictory to the "moral behavoir" that we believe in today

Q: And finally, how can the moral guidance from religion be shown to be correct.
A: Again, quoting from skybird's article --- if it can let people evade pain, sufferings and to become happy. If the teachings matches these citerias then it can be shown to be correct

(Quoting from skybird's article has one fundermental flaw --- it reveals that I start to accept skybird's definition. However, I still maintain my pro-religion stance)

(edited because I found that I didn't finish this article as I post it)

[peterloo]

(just proof that I didn't edit the article above AFTER someone post something in reply to it). Sorry for it

[fatty]

This thread demands a hearty injection of Friedrich Nietzsche, maybe The Gay Science and Thus Spoke Zarathustra, and someone better read than I to provide it!

There are many successful moral and ethical approaches that don't bother with even a passing reference to religion. Models like utilitarianism or Kantian ethics and categorical imperatives have existed for hundreds of years and orient themselves towards the intrinsic values of human beings and their happiness. That they provide satisfactory guidance in all but the most abstract and unlikely hypotheticals should be reason itself to deny the idea that atheism is "morally bankrupt."

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by fatty

This thread demands a hearty injection of Friedrich Nietzsche, maybe The Gay Science and Thus Spoke Zarathustra, and someone better read than I to provide it!

Hm, and I had Nietzsche's "The Anti-Christ" on my mind.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I suspect this is because god came into conflict with something major in your life, so you found a way to discount him.

Possibly, but nothing I can think of. I simply have come to question everything, and look for evidence, and have yet been able to find none.

That said, I don't hold with atheists who proclaim that all belief is stupid, or unreasonable....

That is why I like talking to you. You can still have a reasonable conversation, and an objective one.[/quote]
But (and no offense is intended, but I have to be honest), I came into this thread accusing you of the same lack of reason and objectivity. I love discussing the issues, but again I've come to question everything I see, including my own motives and knowlege. I'm no longer a devout believer simply because I've seen no real evidence that would cause me to believe that doesn't stem from the belief itself. But I'm also not a true atheist for the simpe reason that, though I consider it a trite and somewhat lame retort, "You can't prove there isn't a God either!" is still basically true. I can't place my faith in something I can't prove, and that includes nonexistence as well.

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Problem is, we all know who's right and we both know reality had nothing to do with it.

If people were smart, they would realize we are not here by accident.

-S

"God does not roll dice..." Albert Einstein

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Fish

It's still not sure he (Jesus) ever lived.


Good reading for both, a-theist and theist.

http://www.jesuspuzzle.com/

and:
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...suspuzzle.html

Excellent links! I especially like the logic in the second one.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Excellent links! I especially like the logic in the second one.

I must say, Doherty's way of explaining Paul was a revelation for me.