Starforce Posts Their objections to Toms Hardware Article - Page 10

Captain Wreckless · 10-29-05, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

i just visited there forums and theres people asking for help on SF problems yet theres no replies. You would think SF would reply.

They've answered a few questions. The default answer seems to be "this is not a SF problem."

Cpt W.

Soulcommander · 10-29-05, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

i just visited there forums and theres people asking for help on SF problems yet theres no replies. You would think SF would reply.

They've answered a few questions. The default answer seems to be "this is not a SF problem."

Cpt W.

Of course they say that if they say anything different then they become liable.

AG124 · 10-29-05, 07:41 AM

I've tested both of my burners - both are working with music CDs.

FesterShinetop · 10-29-05, 01:06 PM

Never had a problem with Starforce, in fact I burned an audio CD last week with no problems...
Wanted to burn an audio CD again this evening and it didn't work? Same settings... same kind of CD. I started thinking what had changed in the past week and the only thing was that I installed the King Kong demo which also installed (new) SF drivers (the idea of installing bloody SF with a demo is beyond me anyway), so I did the SF removal tool and voila! Works again...

This really p'ed me off though, those idiots install something with a bloody DEMO that renders some of your hardware useless!!! I almost threw away one of my CD's because I thought it was broken!!! This is really going TOO FAR. I don't just blame SF for this, but I also blame UBI for putting this in their software... go on like this and they loose another customer...

Col7777 · 10-29-05, 02:30 PM

@ FesterShinetop,

That is one of my points I mentioned earlier, ok it may stop or deter pirates but soon it will deter the customers.
Again I said earlier, read the posts on other forums, lots are or have had problems since SF was on their machines.
I know some up to now haven't had any, but a lot have, it's like a shop selling a bad product, people will start using a different shop.

If a person gets ill on your street with a disease, then others get it, just because you haven't got it yet doesn't mean the disease isn't there.
I just can't understand why so many are having these problems yet still people can't or won't accept it till it happens to them.

Soulcommander · 10-30-05, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FesterShinetop

Never had a problem with Starforce, in fact I burned an audio CD last week with no problems...
Wanted to burn an audio CD again this evening and it didn't work? Same settings... same kind of CD. I started thinking what had changed in the past week and the only thing was that I installed the King Kong demo which also installed (new) SF drivers (the idea of installing bloody SF with a demo is beyond me anyway), so I did the SF removal tool and voila! Works again...

This really p'ed me off though, those idiots install something with a bloody DEMO that renders some of your hardware useless!!! I almost threw away one of my CD's because I thought it was broken!!! This is really going TOO FAR. I don't just blame SF for this, but I also blame UBI for putting this in their software... go on like this and they loose another customer...

Ranting al calling SF idiots will not get you anywhere ..PM me sir.
As far as the demo having it. I read that SF feels thay have to potect the game code no matter if its a demo. I feel your pain but no gain unless you pm me and we talk.

SC

Wulfmann · 10-30-05, 05:01 PM

Just so I am not confused.
I bought SH3 legally as I do all my games.
If I use a no-cd crack and remove the Starforce drivers is that a violation of any sort?
Since I paid for this game how would doing this to protect my PC be illegal????
Not that I have done this you understand but for argument say I did and the game runs fine without Starforce drivers what would I have done wrong?
Is Starforce legally allowed to damage my PC and stopping them illegal?

Wulfmann

jason210 · 10-31-05, 06:57 AM

IMHO, Starforce is history anyway. The way things are going I think the future's going to be about online authentication now. You have an online account, and you register the product key with that account. Then only you can use the software product. This is what Valve have done with their all their games - they run on a seperate platform called Steam that carries out automatic updates and user authentification via a remote server. Before you can play the game you need to go online and get authenticated.

Of course, this very controlling and invades one's privacy, and is 100% dependent on the Internet. It also paves the way for Pay-to-play, unfortunately, since the developer has full control over the account holder's access. Makes Starforce look harmless by comparison! One advantage to this, however, is that you don't need to have the CD in to play the game, and the CD/DVD is easy to make a back-up copy of. You can also install the CD /DVD on different PCs, no problem - but of course you can only ever play on one of those PCs at any one time. But this is just like replacing one bad thing with another.

All these kinds of protection systems effectively put an artificial limit on a games lifespan, and change the way we think about ownership. Whenever I've bought a game on a CD or DVD, I've always thought of it as I would a book. I've bought it and it's mine. Not so anymore. All I've bought now is the right to use the product for a time that's limited either by the product's physical lifespan (CDS/DVDS will eventually deteriorate) or by the length of time developers stay around to support it (as with server authentification).

J

Soulcommander · 10-31-05, 12:38 PM

Quote:

All these kinds of protection systems effectively put an artificial limit on a games lifespan, and change the way we think about ownership. Whenever I've bought a game on a CD or DVD, I've always thought of it as I would a book. I've bought it and it's mine. Not so anymore. All I've bought now is the right to use the product for a time that's limited either by the product's physical lifespan (CDS/DVDS will eventually deteriorate) or by the length of time developers stay around to support it (as with server authentification).

I feel exactly the same way as the type in bold states.

And of course some of the other things he said too!

Col7777 · 10-31-05, 02:16 PM

I read about this kind of protection a while ago, it will be a shame for the people who can't afford or get internet, but it will make a lot of internet providers a bit richer.

kanderstag · 11-01-05, 11:24 AM

Valve works better than you give it credit for. Go into your firewall and block Steam and HL2. You can still play HL2 without a connection to the internet. But really, looking at the overall picture I'd venture the percentage of those who buy HL2 without internet access is pretty darned small. Forget dialup, what is the broadband saturation rate for whichever country you live in? I can still burn, rip, do whatever.

Ubisoft should be taken to task for whatever copy protection scheme it employs. SF is just doing their bidding. This type of protection is nothing new at Ubi, I recall them using a less invasive scheme with Far Cry.

jason210 · 11-01-05, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanderstag

Valve works better than you give it credit for. Go into your firewall and block Steam and HL2. You can still play HL2 without a connection to the internet.

Yes, but you can't install it and run it for the first time without authenticating it via the Internet. Then you can pull the cable out or whatever, but if you ever need to reformat, you're back to the Internet again.

Soulcommander · 11-01-05, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanderstag

Valve works better than you give it credit for. Go into your firewall and block Steam and HL2. You can still play HL2 without a connection to the internet. But really, looking at the overall picture I'd venture the percentage of those who buy HL2 without internet access is pretty darned small. Forget dialup, what is the broadband saturation rate for whichever country you live in? I can still burn, rip, do whatever.

Ubisoft should be taken to task for whatever copy protection scheme it employs. SF is just doing their bidding. This type of protection is nothing new at Ubi, I recall them using a less invasive scheme with Far Cry.

I keep getting more and more messages from legitimate owners and purchasers of software stating they are now going to go the internet route of getting their software...To clarify further. Not pay for a thing anymore. This will hurt sales for many publishers if the public goes that route. I for one want to own my copy of a piece of software. So all I can say is I can't blame them. I don't endorse it but I can't say I would hold it against someone either. A very touchy situation indeed.

wetwarev7 · 11-01-05, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulcommander

Quote:

All these kinds of protection systems effectively put an artificial limit on a games lifespan, and change the way we think about ownership. Whenever I've bought a game on a CD or DVD, I've always thought of it as I would a book. I've bought it and it's mine. Not so anymore. All I've bought now is the right to use the product for a time that's limited either by the product's physical lifespan (CDS/DVDS will eventually deteriorate) or by the length of time developers stay around to support it (as with server authentification).

I feel exactly the same way as the type in bold states.

And of course some of the other things he said too!

Same here. I pay for it, it's mine. I'm not wanting to lease the darn thing.

kanderstag · 11-01-05, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason210

Yes, but you can't install it and run it for the first time without authenticating it via the Internet. Then you can pull the cable out or whatever, but if you ever need to reformat, you're back to the Internet again.

So really it just boils down to Steam's online authentication then? This seems trivial to me, given that the consumer likely to buy the game already has internet access.

10-29-05, 02:30 PM	#140
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	@ FesterShinetop, That is one of my points I mentioned earlier, ok it may stop or deter pirates but soon it will deter the customers. Again I said earlier, read the posts on other forums, lots are or have had problems since SF was on their machines. I know some up to now haven't had any, but a lot have, it's like a shop selling a bad product, people will start using a different shop. If a person gets ill on your street with a disease, then others get it, just because you haven't got it yet doesn't mean the disease isn't there. I just can't understand why so many are having these problems yet still people can't or won't accept it till it happens to them. __________________ Silent and Violent

10-30-05, 05:01 PM	#142
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Just so I am not confused. I bought SH3 legally as I do all my games. If I use a no-cd crack and remove the Starforce drivers is that a violation of any sort? Since I paid for this game how would doing this to protect my PC be illegal???? Not that I have done this you understand but for argument say I did and the game runs fine without Starforce drivers what would I have done wrong? Is Starforce legally allowed to damage my PC and stopping them illegal? Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

10-31-05, 06:57 AM	#143
jason210 Sonar Guy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden / UK Posts: 386 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	IMHO, Starforce is history anyway. The way things are going I think the future's going to be about online authentication now. You have an online account, and you register the product key with that account. Then only you can use the software product. This is what Valve have done with their all their games - they run on a seperate platform called Steam that carries out automatic updates and user authentification via a remote server. Before you can play the game you need to go online and get authenticated. Of course, this very controlling and invades one's privacy, and is 100% dependent on the Internet. It also paves the way for Pay-to-play, unfortunately, since the developer has full control over the account holder's access. Makes Starforce look harmless by comparison! One advantage to this, however, is that you don't need to have the CD in to play the game, and the CD/DVD is easy to make a back-up copy of. You can also install the CD /DVD on different PCs, no problem - but of course you can only ever play on one of those PCs at any one time. But this is just like replacing one bad thing with another. All these kinds of protection systems effectively put an artificial limit on a games lifespan, and change the way we think about ownership. Whenever I've bought a game on a CD or DVD, I've always thought of it as I would a book. I've bought it and it's mine. Not so anymore. All I've bought now is the right to use the product for a time that's limited either by the product's physical lifespan (CDS/DVDS will eventually deteriorate) or by the length of time developers stay around to support it (as with server authentification). J __________________ Intel Core i9-9900K @ 3.6 GHz nVidia GeForce RTX 2070 32GB memory Windows 10 Pro

10-31-05, 02:16 PM	#145
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	I read about this kind of protection a while ago, it will be a shame for the people who can't afford or get internet, but it will make a lot of internet providers a bit richer. __________________ Silent and Violent

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10-29-05, 07:41 AM	#138
AG124 Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,878 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I've tested both of my burners - both are working with music CDs.

10-29-05, 01:06 PM	#139
FesterShinetop Gunner Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 96 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Never had a problem with Starforce, in fact I burned an audio CD last week with no problems... Wanted to burn an audio CD again this evening and it didn't work? Same settings... same kind of CD. I started thinking what had changed in the past week and the only thing was that I installed the King Kong demo which also installed (new) SF drivers (the idea of installing bloody SF with a demo is beyond me anyway), so I did the SF removal tool and voila! Works again... This really p'ed me off though, those idiots install something with a bloody DEMO that renders some of your hardware useless!!! I almost threw away one of my CD's because I thought it was broken!!! This is really going TOO FAR. I don't just blame SF for this, but I also blame UBI for putting this in their software... go on like this and they loose another customer...

11-01-05, 11:24 AM	#146
kanderstag Watch Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 20 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Valve works better than you give it credit for. Go into your firewall and block Steam and HL2. You can still play HL2 without a connection to the internet. But really, looking at the overall picture I'd venture the percentage of those who buy HL2 without internet access is pretty darned small. Forget dialup, what is the broadband saturation rate for whichever country you live in? I can still burn, rip, do whatever. Ubisoft should be taken to task for whatever copy protection scheme it employs. SF is just doing their bidding. This type of protection is nothing new at Ubi, I recall them using a less invasive scheme with Far Cry.